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Old October 30th, 2010, 07:00 AM   #241
kominam
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As I suspected, this is getting pathetic really. I really suspected from the beginning that the intention behind qina's big investment in railways system was to connect the entire Asia motivated by their two little neighbors.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 08:23 AM   #242
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Old October 30th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Nothing is sure yet, all this is pretty new. Bulgaria had intended to build a rather fast conventional route from Sofia to Vidin which should then use the bridge under construction there to Western Romania and continue via Timisoara to Budapest, all of this at speeds around 160 kmh. But a Chinese loan or joint venture opens completely new perspectives, and the main question is whether China can conclude a deal with Serbia or Romania. Serbia is geographically most interesting as it provides the shortest and least mountaineous way to Central Europe, and a lot of possible connecting routes. However, Serbian Railways and the Serbian state are maybe not yet ready to properly deal with such a potential investment. Romania is at the moment more organized and has begun to invest into its major rail transit routes, therefore it might make the grade despite the geographic drawbacks.
Romania and Hungary already have an agreement for a high-speed rail from Budapest to Bucharest and further to Constanta, a continuation of the fast rail line coming from Vienna. I guess that can be linked to the future China-Bulgaria fast rail:


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Originally Posted by tony64 View Post
Hungary and Romania
The two countries have agreed in November 2007 to build a high speed line between their capital cities Budapest and Bucharest which would be a part of a larger transportation corridor Paris-Vienna-Budapest-(Timisoara)-Bucharest-Constanta. There is no clear schedule for the project yet, but feasibility studies, ecological impact studies and right-of-way land purchase should not begin before 2009. The link will be designed to support speeds up to 300 km/h, but no technical details have been made public as of March 2008.

Hungary and Serbia
The main cities between Budapest and Beograd (Belgrade) are Kecskemét (population 110 000) , Szeged (163 000), Subotica (148 000), and Novi Sad (300 000). However, they are not in a straight line, and are not served by a single rail line.
The solution proposed here is a high-speed line from Budapest though Kecskemét to Szeged. The line would start from a new station at Budapest Ferihegy airport, and approximately follow the M5 motorway to Kecskemét. South of Kiskunfélegyháza, the line would split, with a high-speed line on a completely new alignment, almost due south to Subotica. Apart from this section and the Ferihegy- Kecskemét line, the lines would follow existing rail lines, allowing construction section by section. This combination of lines gives an optimum solution from a European perspective, and goes further than the limited corridors proposed by the EU.

Hungary and Slovenia
From Ljubljana to Budapest

Hungary and Austria
From Vienna to Budapest



Currently, Romania is upgrading its rail line on TEN-T Corridor IV to 160 km/h.

But it looks like it's a lot shorter to go through Belgrade than through Bucharest, from Sofia.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kominam View Post
As I suspected, this is getting pathetic really. I really suspected from the beginning that the intention behind qina's big investment in railways system was to connect the entire Asia motivated by their two little neighbors.
So?
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Old December 8th, 2010, 10:38 AM   #245
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China, Laos to start work on high-speed rail link in 2011
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BEIJING - China and Laos will begin construction early next year of the first high-speed rail line between the two countries, a report said Wednesday, as part of a project to link China and Southeast Asia.

The bullet-train rail line will be completed in around 2014, Laotian Deputy Prime Minister Somsavat Lengsavad was quoted by the Wall Street Journal as saying.

Landlocked Laos, which has one of the fastest growing economies in the region, currently has only 3.5 kilometres (2.1 miles) of train track, running from the Thai border town of Nong Khai to Thanaleng.

"We believe this project should contribute significantly to the socioeconomic development of Laos, as well as to the promotion of economic cooperation between (Southeast Asia) and China," Somsavat said, on the sidelines of an international rail conference in Beijing.

The long-discussed train system connecting hundreds of millions of people would symbolize the growing economic links between China and countries such as Laos and Thailand, the report said.

While the exact route is not yet clear, the rail line is expected to connect the southwest Chinese city of Kunming with Singapore, passing through Laos, Thailand and Malaysia, it said.

Speaking at the same conference, Thai Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said his country was also "looking forward to the prospects of connected rail networks in Asia."

China, which already has built a high-speed rail network that as of November stretched 7,531 kilometers across the vast country, is expected to supply much of the train technology for the project.

Amid growing pressure on the country's own rail network, China's railways ministry said in July that it would spend about 120 billion dollars to nearly double the nation's high-speed rail network by 2012.

Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang meanwhile told the conference that China was "encouraging" its train producers and other concerns to "go global."

He said China was ready to "share its technological achievements" with other countries, without elaborating.

The comments follow concerns by train makers in other countries that Chinese companies are using tweaked or "re-engineered" Western technology to bid on contracts -- accusation Chinese officials deny.

Foreign train producers maintain that selling such technology outside China would be a violation of China's agreements with them.

Alstom and Bombardier said Tuesday they had signed agreements with China to speed up development of rail transport in the country and also in overseas markets.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakin...l-link-in-2011
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Old December 8th, 2010, 02:31 PM   #246
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3 years to build a line through such a mountainous country? That is incredibly quick, any idea where it would stop. I would assume Luang Prabang and Vientiane. This would do great things for the tourism in this incredibly poor country. If China made its visas easier to obtain they could get a lot of tourism from this.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 07:37 AM   #247
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Bullet train to connect Thailand, Laos
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China signed a framework agreement Wednesday to build high-speed railways connecting to Laos and Thailand, part of a plan to further facilitate trade and investment among Southeast Asian nations.

Railway-related industries are also expecting to see a big boost in business opportunities.

"This (project) is something we really needed," Phairush Burapachaisri, general-secretary of the Thailand Chamber of Commerce, told the Global Times at the Third East Asian Business Forum, which was held on Wednesday in Beijing.

During the seventh World Congress on High Speed Rail Wednesday, Thailand's deputy prime minister said China is cooperating on high-speed railways with the countries of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Burapachaisri said the high-speed railway system will help improve the logistics between China and the region, particularly with Laos, Thailand, Malay-sia and all the way to Singapore.

The high-speed railway links China's Kunming city in Yunnan Province to northeast Nong Khai in Thailand, connecting Bangkok and then spanning east to the industrially driven Thai East-ern Seaboard.

After the railway's completion, cargo from China's southwest will be more easily transported to the nearest seaport, he said.

China has also agreed to help build a high-speed railway linked to the Laotian capital of Vientiane. Landlocked Laos, which has one of the fastest growing economies in the region, currently has only 3.5 kilometers of train track, running from the Thai border town of Nong Khai to Thanaleng. Construction on that project will be completed in 2015.

China already operates a high-speed rail network spanning 7,531 kilometers –the world's longest.

The bullish news of the latest joint venture pushed up stock prices Wednesday for Stateowned South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Corp and CNR Corp. Their stock prices jumped by 6.95 and 5.97 percent respectively on Wednesday.

Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang told the forum that China was "encouraging" its train producers and other concerns to "go global." He said China was ready to "share its technological achievements" with other countries, without elaborating.

The comments follow concerns by train makers in other countries that Chinese firms are using tweaked or "reengineered" Western technology to bid on contracts - an accusation Chinese officials deny. Foreign train producers maintain that selling such technology outside China would be a violation of China's agreements with them.

French engineering group Alstom and global transportation manufacturer Bombardier signed agreements Tuesday with the railway ministry to speed up development of rail transport in the vast country and also in overseas markets.
http://business.globaltimes.cn/indus...12/600311.html
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Old December 17th, 2010, 03:05 AM   #248
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Pak, China for laying railway track thru Khunjarab Pass
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and China have agreed in principle to constitute a consortium for seeking a soft-term loan from some international company for laying a railway track between the two countries, an official said.

He said a six-member committee comprising equal number of experts from both China and Pakistan has already been constituted to move forward in this regard.

He said China has already prepared a feasibility report of laying a railway track in the difficult terrain of Karakoram linking both the states through Khunjarab Pass.

He said the Chinese feasibility report covered the railway track up to Havelian, a town near Islamabad.

He said both the sides were agreed to form a consortium and seek support of some international institution for funding the multi-billion dollars project.

A process to hook up the Pakistan Railways with the Trans-Asian Railway Network is initiated with active support of Chinese government which will besides, linking the time tested friendly countries through rail networks, also ensure standardizing the Pakistani gauge to international standards.

This will facilitate trade to the Central Asian Republics, Russia and China and beyond. The plan is to hook up the two countries with road, rail, fibre optic links. app
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-12-2010_pg5_7
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Old December 17th, 2010, 03:06 AM   #249
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Pakistan Railways to chug over Trans-Asian Railway Network
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ISLAMABAD, Dec 15 (APP): A process to hook up the Pakistan Railways with the Trans-Asian Railway Network is initiated with active support of Chinese government which will besides, linking these time tested friendly countries through rail networks, also ensure standardizing the Pakistani guage to international standards.This will facilitate trade to the Central Asian Republics, Russia and China and beyond. The plan is to hook up the two countries with road, rail, fiber optic links, an official of the ministry told APP.Trade between the people of the Indus and the people of the Yangtse has been going on for thousands of years.Commerce between the Indus Valley Civilization (aka Pakistan 5000 years ago) and Ughuristan, Eastern Turkistan or Xinxiang has been an integral of the Pakistani and Kashmiri economy.

Despite many claims this is the original Silk Route, and both China and Pakistan are determined to update it with modern fibre, rail, road and business links: Fibre-optic line, oil & gas pipeline, rail track linking Karakorum Highway to Gwadar.

According to an official, Pakistan and China have agreed in principle to form a consortium for seeking a soft-term loan from some international company for laying a railway track between the two states.

He said in this connection a six-member committee comprising equal number of experts from both China and Pakistan was already constituted to move forward in this regard.
He said China has already prepared a feasibility report of laying a railway track in the difficult terrain of Karakoram linking both the states through Khunjarab Pass.

He said that the Chinese feasibility report covered the railway track up to Havelian, a town at the fringes of Islamabad.

He said that both the sides were agreed to form a consortium and seek support of some international institution for funding of this multi-billion dollars project.
http://app.com.pk/en_/index.php?opti...24767&Itemid=2
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Old December 17th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #250
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I hope the three lines will be built with chinese technologies...
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Old December 20th, 2010, 02:38 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
I hope the three lines will be built with chinese technologies...
Probably the only way to do it affordably is with Chinese companies, workers, money and "technology".

Last edited by Silly_Walks; December 20th, 2010 at 08:17 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2010, 07:11 PM   #252
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With that project, how much of Pakistan's railroad network will likely be converted to Chinese standards (1435 mm 'standard' track gauge , loading gauge, coupling ('AAR' couplers), braking, axle weight limits, etc - virtually identical to the standards used in North America)?

Mike
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Old December 20th, 2010, 10:06 PM   #253
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Regauging the entire network and replacing or converting all existing rolling stock would be very expensive. Furthermore, Pakistan would soon regret regauging if relations with India improved, since Pakistan's broad gauge is the same as India's and trains can cross the border. It's probably only because of Pakistan's poor political relations with India and very low level of cross-border traffic (IIRC there's only one train a week, often suspended for security reasons) that regauging is being contemplated at all.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 12:52 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gag Halfrunt View Post
Regauging the entire network and replacing or converting all existing rolling stock would be very expensive. Furthermore, Pakistan would soon regret regauging if relations with India improved, since Pakistan's broad gauge is the same as India's and trains can cross the border. It's probably only because of Pakistan's poor political relations with India and very low level of cross-border traffic (IIRC there's only one train a week, often suspended for security reasons) that regauging is being contemplated at all.
One train per week ? A bit more than that : 3 actually, 2/week between
Amritsar and Lahore, and 1 per week between Jodhpur and Karachi. But
yes, I agree with you, it is still very low.

But also, if we come back to the original topic of this thread, please consider
that a whole regauging of the Pakistan railways won't be necessary. If this
line along the Karakorum Highway is ever built, what will be missed is just
a standard gauge link to the Iranian border. Which, for its west half, is
precisely the line from Taftan to Quetta, just connected to the Iranian
network a few months ago. This line is currently in very bad shape, needs
rebuilding if one plans to use it for any kind of sizeable traffic, and there
are already talks to rebuild it to standard gauge...
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Old December 21st, 2010, 04:12 PM   #255
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Spain has the same 1668 mm gauge as India and Pakistan. And they are not hurrying to regauge although they have a land border with 1435 mm France: only high speed railways are 1435 mm, the old 1668 mm railways are all in use and they actually build high speed variable gauge trains for the 1668 mm network as well.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 01:05 AM   #256
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Indian broad gauge is 1,676 mm, not 1,668 mm.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 04:35 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gag Halfrunt View Post
Indian broad gauge is 1,676 mm, not 1,668 mm.
The difference being 8 mm, they are close enough to be interoperable.

Also, with their difference from 1435 mm 'standard' gauge, they can easily be adapted to dual-gauge use with the installation of a third running rail.

Ditto Russian and Finnish railroads - Finland's broad gauge standard is 4 mm narrower (1520 mm vs 1524 mm), close enough to interoperate. OTOH, they are too close to 'standard' gauge (85 and 89 mm differences) to easily create dual-gauge track with a third rail - either they have to be converted entirely, two rails would need to be laid to make dual-gauge track or a completely new parallel roadbed would have to be built to allow trains of the other gauge to use a particular line.

Mike
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 05:30 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
The difference being 8 mm, they are close enough to be interoperable.
How broad is the loading gauge of Pakistan broad gauge railways?
Spain has just 292 cm broad trains. Would actual secondhand trains from Spain fit in Pakistan?
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Old December 24th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Spain has the same 1668 mm gauge as India and Pakistan. And they are not hurrying to regauge although they have a land border with 1435 mm France: only high speed railways are 1435 mm, the old 1668 mm railways are all in use and they actually build high speed variable gauge trains for the 1668 mm network as well.
Yes, and the result of that is a quasi total absence of freight traffic by rail
between the two countries.

For passenger traffic, gauge differences can now easily be accomodated. For
freight, it is a major problem. Goods trans-shipment is slow, labor-intensive,
and expensive; and dual-gauge rolling stock is too expensive to build and to
maintain.

A Europe-China link through Pakistan would be essentially freight-oriented,
therefore gauge continuity through the whole journey is an essential success
factor. But again, if you look at a map, you'll see that only one line, quite
excentred, of the Pakistan network, is concerned, so this should be feasible.

But I would not count on the internal capabilities of the Pakistan nation to
take over this rebuild operation - they have much more urgent priorities.
If this is to happen, international financing will be required.
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Old December 25th, 2010, 03:50 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
I hope the three lines will be built with chinese technologies...
What's all this talk about "Chinese" technology and standards? You do realize that these are European standards and European technology, do you?
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