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Old February 5th, 2008, 09:40 AM   #21
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:13 AM   #22
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How much will the increase in trade result from this rail, what do you guys think?
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Old February 6th, 2008, 08:11 AM   #23
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When it comes to rail travel, especially those crossing long distances, there is a significant degree of unpredictability. Track conditions and weather will play a big role in determining the travel time of this train.

Driving a train across multiple nations will be a very difficult task, and prone to countless delays.

The supreme law of rail travel is that if you are late, then you'll be immediately pushed down the food chain, which will result in you being even later. So if something happens in Germany, the train will most likely miss its window in Poland, which will cause even more delays. And then there are only 5 more countries to go after that. Wither or not countries will give this train high priority is up to debate, and my guess is that this train will run the tracks like every other freight carriers. Which means it'll be dodging just about everything else that runs on the tracks.

With that in mind, and considering the distance covered and the speed that this train runs at. This service can easily be days if not weeks late. The question is will that be acceptable.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 04:15 AM   #24
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I don't think it's politically feasible. There's already plenty of squeamishness about European energy dependence on Russia. I don't think people also want to rely on Russia for the ever more important container transport from and to China
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Old February 7th, 2008, 06:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
When it comes to rail travel, especially those crossing long distances, there is a significant degree of unpredictability. Track conditions and weather will play a big role in determining the travel time of this train.

Driving a train across multiple nations will be a very difficult task, and prone to countless delays.

The supreme law of rail travel is that if you are late, then you'll be immediately pushed down the food chain, which will result in you being even later. So if something happens in Germany, the train will most likely miss its window in Poland, which will cause even more delays. And then there are only 5 more countries to go after that. Wither or not countries will give this train high priority is up to debate, and my guess is that this train will run the tracks like every other freight carriers. Which means it'll be dodging just about everything else that runs on the tracks.

With that in mind, and considering the distance covered and the speed that this train runs at. This service can easily be days if not weeks late. The question is will that be acceptable.
That sounded like a very true description of AMERICAN railways ... not exactly what one find's in european railways ...
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Old February 7th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanWalker View Post
I don't think it's politically feasible. There's already plenty of squeamishness about European energy dependence on Russia. I don't think people also want to rely on Russia for the ever more important container transport from and to China
Your could build a route through Iran, to avoid russian territory.
Ah wait....That will soon be US territory...damn
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Old February 8th, 2008, 11:08 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
That sounded like a very true description of AMERICAN railways ... not exactly what one find's in european railways ...
my point is that delays happen, and there are only so many track. The further you drive a train, the harder it is to keep time. Especially if you're corssing boarders. Trying to be one time by the time it gets to China will be like trying to score a basket from half court. Very difficult.

If a train in Europe can miss its window and still be on time, then it only means that the particular section of the network is under used. Because when you have trains running back to back with as little as 5 minute headways, there can be no room for delays.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #28
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You seem to be forgetting that most of Europe's mainlines are double-track. The route chosen for this "Euroasian landbridge" is double-track all the way through Germany, Poland, Belarus and Russia. The single-track part is only in Mongolia, I think.

When you arrive late at some point on a double-track line, you still have a chance to squeeze into a free slot and continue running in that slot for a long distance. That's because you don't have to worry about trains from the opposite direction, just faster trains behind you. So delays don't add up so easily.

And yes, this probably means that the network is under-used, since in Poland, Belarus, Russia we don't have 5 minutes headways on all the mainlines all the time of the day. Usually there's no problem to squeeze the delayed train into the schedule.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 04:36 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
my point is that delays happen, and there are only so many track. The further you drive a train, the harder it is to keep time. Especially if you're corssing boarders. Trying to be one time by the time it gets to China will be like trying to score a basket from half court. Very difficult.

If a train in Europe can miss its window and still be on time, then it only means that the particular section of the network is under used. Because when you have trains running back to back with as little as 5 minute headways, there can be no room for delays.
that's not how trains in europe are run ... things here are planned in a different manner than US trains ...

for instance theres a train to/from a local station in my neighbourhood:

Portugal-Spain-France-Germany-Poland ... only some 3000km in a row ... lot0s of diesel usage ... diferent electric systems and lots of signaling ... also lots of engineer echanges ... since it is timetabled acordingly ... theres not that mutch to talk about

... and usualy it's always on time.

So as you can see ... we'll manage ....


sidenote: we can squese as much as 30/40 trains (or more) each way in a SINGLE TRACK with simple block signaling over here ... if they were ONE WAY(or double track) like in USA it would be feasible to put trains each 2 minutes all day round ... but of course we don't have our railways prepared for long trains (most lines are only prepared for 200m/400m long trains .. .and fewer are able to acomodate longer trains)
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Old February 10th, 2008, 05:09 AM   #30
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Great news, look forward to updates and pictures
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Old February 11th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
that's not how trains in europe are run ... things here are planned in a different manner than US trains ...

for instance theres a train to/from a local station in my neighbourhood:

Portugal-Spain-France-Germany-Poland ... only some 3000km in a row ... lot0s of diesel usage ... diferent electric systems and lots of signaling ... also lots of engineer echanges ... since it is timetabled acordingly ... theres not that mutch to talk about

... and usualy it's always on time.

So as you can see ... we'll manage ....


sidenote: we can squese as much as 30/40 trains (or more) each way in a SINGLE TRACK with simple block signaling over here ... if they were ONE WAY(or double track) like in USA it would be feasible to put trains each 2 minutes all day round ... but of course we don't have our railways prepared for long trains (most lines are only prepared for 200m/400m long trains .. .and fewer are able to acomodate longer trains)
I guess we're also assuming that all trains operating on the tracks travel at the same speed as well.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 12:08 AM   #32
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EURASIAN | Railway Development

Daily Mail - Orient super express: From London to Beijing by train... in just TWO days

By Peter Simpson and David Wilkes
Last updated at 11:10 PM on 09th March 2010

Quote:
Taking up more than a week of your life, the train journey from London to Beijing is not one most people would currently consider.

But fast forward a few years and you could find yourself stepping off in the Chinese capital in a mere two days.

The prospect of the incredible journey came closer to reality yesterday with China's ambitious plans to build a high-speed rail network to Europe.
Enlarge Orient super express.jpg


Under the scheme, British passengers would be able to depart from King's Cross in London and, using the Channel Tunnel, join a service to the Chinese capital.

Rail expert Wang Mengshu, from China's Academy of Engineering, said: 'We are aiming for the trains to run at 215mph.'

That means the 5,070-mile trip from London to Beijing - which currently takes a week or more and several changes of service - could be completed in 48 hours.

...

...
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Old March 14th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #33
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Sounds pretty neat, but is there a market for that? Who, besides railfans, would travel to Beijing in two days when a plane gets there much faster? To me, it seems like a service for the cities in between instead of strictly London-Beijing. Are these faster than the Japan bullet trains? I got a headache riding that because the scenery flew by so fast.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 01:59 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaCity View Post
Daily Mail - Orient super express: From London to Beijing by train... in just TWO days

By Peter Simpson and David Wilkes
Last updated at 11:10 PM on 09th March 2010
It's silly eurocentrism to call it "orient express". It is a project initiated by the chinese, built from China to Europe. If anything, it is (would be) the Euro-Express, which also sounds better because of the alliteration.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 03:09 AM   #35
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Also, there has been no mention of it connecting directly to London, they only mentioned it would connect to European rail systems in Germany/Eastern Europe
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Old March 14th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #36
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2 days in a train..............no stop.............
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Old March 14th, 2010, 02:39 PM   #37
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It's not about trains, it's about projecting power and regional geopolitics and side-tracking the Russians in that part of Central Asia. It is also about boosting the standing of the CP of China internally. The Name Orient Super Express is not Euro-centric but Anglo-centric, big difference there. The original trains went to the European Side of Istanbul, so never left the continent. If the Chinese want to pay for it and can get all the countries to cooperate, they should go for it. Nice piece of YUAN-diplomacy that would be.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 03:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbough View Post
Sounds pretty neat, but is there a market for that? Who, besides railfans, would travel to Beijing in two days when a plane gets there much faster? To me, it seems like a service for the cities in between instead of strictly London-Beijing. Are these faster than the Japan bullet trains? I got a headache riding that because the scenery flew by so fast.
I agree with you there. I don't think I would ever go directly from London to Beijing by train, if you can get there by plane in less than 24 hours. You can already do this journey on much slower trains, plus take in the scenery as you go and stop off along the way to do some sightseeing.

If it did happen it would be one hell of an achievement and it would be very useful to serve cities in between - maybe by overnight long distance high-speed sleeper services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
It's silly eurocentrism to call it "orient express". It is a project initiated by the chinese, built from China to Europe. If anything, it is (would be) the Euro-Express, which also sounds better because of the alliteration.
I think I would be a bit more PC about the naming and call it something like "Trans-Eurasia High Speed Network". If China are paying for it and operating the services, then they can call it what they like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Also, there has been no mention of it connecting directly to London, they only mentioned it would connect to European rail systems in Germany/Eastern Europe
Yes, that's true - that Daily Mail article did seem to stretch things a bit. However, London already has a direct High-Speed link to Belgium and there is talk of Deutsche Bahn starting a service between London and Frankfurt and/or Cologne. In the 10-15 year timescale mentioned, I don't think it would be completely pie-in-the-sky to have a complete high speed link all the way from London-Beijing.

Last edited by SagaCity; March 14th, 2010 at 06:25 PM.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #39
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2 days in a train..............no stop.............
I'm sure you wouldn't just be sat down for the whole time. You would get like a room with a bed, TV and internet etc
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Old March 14th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #40
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I can't believe such a long high speed passenger rail would make sense economically. I also doubt it could be competitive against aviation.

As high capacity cargo line, this would make perfect sense however as the train is considerably faster than ships can ever be while the capacity is still impressive. Such a rail line would probably be a huge benefit for all regions along it with access to it.
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