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Old September 16th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #101
MarcVD
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May be this lack of progress is happening because :
- the objective is too ambitious and too far away
- the plan does not offer enough immediate benefits
- the plan involves countries that have no desire to open their borders

Instead of aiming at a "trans asian network", it should focus on more immediately reachable objectives like, for example, a continuous rail link
between Europe and India with no or an absolute minimum of gauge changes.
Same for Europe-China. Seeing the rail network as it is in Asia now, those
objectives look like low-hanging fruits, easily reachable with minimal efforts.
If they are achieved and prove to be successful, the crowd will want to join
and the "trans asian network" will finally come into existence. But asking,
from the start, to join Europe with Singapore, with the need tu create
thousands of missing kilometers of tracks through hostile countries or
closed borders, is the best way for stillstand and failure.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:27 AM   #102
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China Wants to Connect its High-Speed Rail to Europe (Largest Infrastructure Project in History)

Source: http://cleantechnica.com/2010/03/13/...ct-in-history/



China is clearly taking the lead on high-speed rail, but it is not satisfied just to have it within its own country. It wants a straight connection to Europe on high-speed rail now.

It might seem like a pipe dream if it weren’t for the fact that China is already about halfway through the construction of the largest high-speed rail (HSR) network in the world with the fastest trains in the world.

With its internal projects getting closer to completion, China’s new goal is to continue on with a HSR revolution internationally in order to create two-day HSR trip times between Beijing and London (which itself might get some pretty fast trains soon)!

But it is about much more than a rail connection or two to Europe.


The news of China’s plans were announced in the South China Morning Post this week. The international network is supposed to include a total of 17 countries.

As mapped, this is likely to be the largest infrastructure project in history.

It would also extend south to Singapore and northeast into Mongolia and Russia.

Its main connection to Europe would likely go through India, Pakistan and the Middle East. Although, exact routes are not yet determined.



Plans Moving Forward

Reportedly, negotiations with the relevant 17 countries are already underway.

China would like to fund the whole project itself in exchange for natural resources it lacks. One of the senior consultants working on the project, Wang Mengshu, said, “We would actually prefer the other countries to pay in natural resources rather than make their own capital investment.”

Myanmar and Russia already have rail links planned and China is also in communication with Iran, Pakistan and India regarding development of the internal rail lines in each of those countries that would connect to the network.

Additionally, construction for the Southeast Asia link has started and Burma is about to begin building its portion of the link.

The central and eastern European portions of the network are moving forward as well. “We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and central and eastern European countries are keen for us to start,” Wang said.

China wants to complete this network in 10 years.

Who Benefits?

Clearly, China is intent on this for its own benefit. In exchange for developing the system, it could acquire tons of much needed natural resources from other countries, as stated above. However, perhaps more importantly, creating such a network would probably solidify China’s central role in the Asian economy and perhaps even the world economy.

Nonetheless, China says that other countries approached it for help and that is how the idea got started. “It was not China that pushed the idea to start with,” said Wang. “It was the other countries that came to us, especially India. These countries cannot fully implement the construction of a high-speed rail network and they hoped to draw on our experience and technology.”

So, presumably, all the countries connected to the network would benefit from better transportation options and increased mobility. However, with China at the center of the process, it is likely to be the biggest winner.

The countries perhaps losing out due to the system’s development and investment would be those across the ocean who are more reliant on international air travel.

Is China going to make the US’ HSR network (if it ever gets built) look like a toy train set? Is this huge system ever going to get built? Is it going to get built in 10 years as China hopes?

With transportation being a central factor influencing economies and power since at least as long back as large-scale transportation options were formed, the answers to these questions are going to be intrinsically tied to the balance of power in the world economy and global society.

via the Transport Politic & the Edmonton Journal
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:28 AM   #103
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China's rail extension to Europe, Malaysia and India (largest infrastructure project in history)

Source: http://cleantechnica.com/2010/03/13/...ct-in-history/



China is clearly taking the lead on high-speed rail, but it is not satisfied just to have it within its own country. It wants a straight connection to Europe on high-speed rail now.

It might seem like a pipe dream if it weren’t for the fact that China is already about halfway through the construction of the largest high-speed rail (HSR) network in the world with the fastest trains in the world.

With its internal projects getting closer to completion, China’s new goal is to continue on with a HSR revolution internationally in order to create two-day HSR trip times between Beijing and London (which itself might get some pretty fast trains soon)!

But it is about much more than a rail connection or two to Europe.


The news of China’s plans were announced in the South China Morning Post this week. The international network is supposed to include a total of 17 countries.

As mapped, this is likely to be the largest infrastructure project in history.

It would also extend south to Singapore and northeast into Mongolia and Russia.

Its main connection to Europe would likely go through India, Pakistan and the Middle East. Although, exact routes are not yet determined.



Plans Moving Forward

Reportedly, negotiations with the relevant 17 countries are already underway.

China would like to fund the whole project itself in exchange for natural resources it lacks. One of the senior consultants working on the project, Wang Mengshu, said, “We would actually prefer the other countries to pay in natural resources rather than make their own capital investment.”

Myanmar and Russia already have rail links planned and China is also in communication with Iran, Pakistan and India regarding development of the internal rail lines in each of those countries that would connect to the network.

Additionally, construction for the Southeast Asia link has started and Burma is about to begin building its portion of the link.

The central and eastern European portions of the network are moving forward as well. “We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and central and eastern European countries are keen for us to start,” Wang said.

China wants to complete this network in 10 years.

Who Benefits?

Clearly, China is intent on this for its own benefit. In exchange for developing the system, it could acquire tons of much needed natural resources from other countries, as stated above. However, perhaps more importantly, creating such a network would probably solidify China’s central role in the Asian economy and perhaps even the world economy.

Nonetheless, China says that other countries approached it for help and that is how the idea got started. “It was not China that pushed the idea to start with,” said Wang. “It was the other countries that came to us, especially India. These countries cannot fully implement the construction of a high-speed rail network and they hoped to draw on our experience and technology.”

So, presumably, all the countries connected to the network would benefit from better transportation options and increased mobility. However, with China at the center of the process, it is likely to be the biggest winner.

The countries perhaps losing out due to the system’s development and investment would be those across the ocean who are more reliant on international air travel.

Is China going to make the US’ HSR network (if it ever gets built) look like a toy train set? Is this huge system ever going to get built? Is it going to get built in 10 years as China hopes?

With transportation being a central factor influencing economies and power since at least as long back as large-scale transportation options were formed, the answers to these questions are going to be intrinsically tied to the balance of power in the world economy and global society.

via the Transport Politic & the Edmonton Journal
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:35 AM   #104
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China's high-speed rail may link 17 nations

Source: http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...2/6916612.html

By Kang Juan

Less than two years after China's first high-speed railway went into operation, the country is now planning to extend its rail network beyond its borders, a project that will involve 17 nations, a Ministry of Railways spokesman confirmed to the Global Times Thursday.

The international rail network will boost the exchange of trade and promote China's newly acquired high-speed railway technology, likely the next brand of "Made in China" comparable to world competitors, experts say.

Initial negotiations with some countries are already underway, the spokesman said, without disclosing what progress had been made or details of the routes.

The information was first revealed by Wang Mengshu, a professor at Beijing Jiaotong University and a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, who said Sunday that China plans to construct a high-speed railway system that will travel across Asia and Europe by 2025.

Wang told the Global Times yesterday that China began construction of the domestic part of one route, which will travel across Southeast Asia, several years ago. The line starts in Kunming in Yunnan Province and runs south, as far as Singapore. Negotiations with parties in Myanmar and Singapore have gone smoothly he said.

According to Wang, a second route will start in Urumqi, the capital of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, and connect Central Asian countries such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan with Germany. A third line will connect the city of Heilongjiang in northern China with Eastern and Southern European countries via Russia.

"Progress on the first route has been faster than the other two," Wang said. "Many problems such as discrepancies in track gauge, line direction and expense allocations are under discussion with the related countries."

Lu Huapu, director of the Communication Research Institute at Tsinghua University, said the project is part of the Pan-Asian railways network, a plan proposed in 2006 that is expected to connect 28 countries with 81,000 kilometers of railways.

"The construction of the network requires a huge coordination effort among countries with big development gaps and must overcome difficulties in terms of discrepancies and technical standards," Lu said.

China will obtain major benefits from the project, which will carry mostly cargo transportation. "The second route will serve as a new "Silk Road" for China's western regions," Wang said. "Industries, businesses and issues of environmental protection are built on growing transport networks."

"It will also be more convenient for us to tap into natural resources, especially oil and gas, in Myanmar, Iran and Russia if the system is completed," Wang said, adding that some parts of the project can be financed by a proposed "resourc-es-for-technology" agreement.

Technology edge

China began purchasing high-speed rail technology in 2004 from France, Japan, Can-ada and Germany.

Six years later, China has developed its own high-speed rail systems, which run at over 350 kilometers per hour.

The high-speed rail line between Beijing and Tianjin, which started service in August 2008, was the first such train in China.

The Wuhan-Guangzhou high-speed railway came into use late last year. It runs 990 kilometers between the Central China city and the booming industrial hub in the south, reducing the standard 12-hour-long trip to only three hours.

These are just two of 42 high-speed lines projected for completion in the country by 2012.

"For China, high-speed railways are both necessary and affordable," Lu said. "Its fast development is boosted by the country's domestic demand, stable financing and a sustain-ability-oriented development mode.

"The country's urbanization process offered opportunities for the massive construction of railway networks," he said, adding that a network of high-speed railways would dramatically "shrink" the country.

According to the plan proposed by the railways ministry, the country's total railway coverage will be more than 110,000 kilometers by 2012, with 13,000 kilometers being high-speed railway, forming the world's largest high-speed railway network.

Wang expects that China may spearhead a new global wave of railway development, and with that the ability to grab a big share of international markets with its cutting-edge safe technologies and low construction costs that will compete with the pioneers in the field, Japan and Germany.

"India would be our top target market in the future. And we are currently negotiating with the US, Russia and Poland," Wang said. "High-speed railways will become another brand of Made-in-China."

Japan, which first implemented a high-speed railway in 1964, has expressed concern that it wasted its chance to be a dominant player in the market.

Although Japanese railway technology is "one of the best in the world, it has failed to find its way into overseas markets," said an editorial in Japan's The Asahi Shimbun on February 1.

"The technology was so bent on Japanese standards that it developed in a very insular way. The rail industry has been very inward-looking," it said.

Deng Jingyin and Qiu Wei contributed to this story

Source:Global Times
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:13 AM   #105
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On moroccan forum by Optimus : High-Speed Railway Networks around The World

Quote:
China To Connect Its High Speed Rail All The Way To Europe



China already has the most advanced and extensive high speed rail line in the world, and soon that network will be connected all the way to Europe and the UK! With initial negotiations and surveys already complete, China is now making plans to connect its high speed rail line through 17 other countries in Asia and Eastern Europe in order to connect to the existing infrastructure in the EU. Additional rail lines will also be built into South East Asia as well as Russia, in what will likely become the largest infrastructure project in history.



China hopes to complete this massive infrastructure project within 10 years, which will include three major rail lines running at speeds of 320 km/hour. The first will go from King’s Cross Station in London all the way to Beijing (8,100 km as the crow flies) and will take approximately two days. This line will also then extend down to Singapore. A second HSR line will connect into Vietnam, Thailand, Burma and Malaysia. The last line to be built will connect Germany to Russia, cross Siberia and then back into China. The exact routes have yet to be determined.

Financing and planning for this monstrous project is actually being provided by China, who is already in serious negotiations with 17 countries to develop the project. China states that other countries, like India, came to them first to get the project rolling, because of their experience in designing and building their own HSR network. Financing for the infrastructure will be provided by China and in return the partnering nation will provide natural resources to China. For instance, Burma, which is about to build its link, will exchange lithium (used in batteries), in order for China to build the line.

China benefits because it will be able to transport materials cheaply into manufacturing centers inside its borders and the Eastern Hemisphere benefits by getting a fast, efficient, low carbon transportation system. Considering China has already become the global leader in HSR, their leadership in this new venture could reasonably shift the balance of power in their direction. Also, get ready for a huge influx of HSR station designs in the coming years.

Via CleanTechnica and Edmonton Journal

http://inhabitat.com/2010/03/15/chin...nal-hsr-plans/
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Old September 19th, 2010, 07:00 AM   #106
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http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1086935
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Old September 19th, 2010, 11:08 AM   #107
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More comments

A recent article on the network:
http://www.btimes.com.my/articles/20...42711/Article/
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Old September 19th, 2010, 11:51 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
That doesn't change anything, it's not going to happen. Why?

How does this benefit other countries through which China is trying to lay its HSR track through? And China is demanding payment in terms of natural resources, instead of THEM paying the other countries for the right to lay the HSR track that they alone would benefit from, as past imperial powers like Britain and Japan did in Asia in the past.

Railway has been historically used as the tool of imperialism(Britain and Japan) in Asia in the past, and this is still valid with new emerging imperialist like China in 2010. How would other countries that China's targeting respond? You have two specific examples. Vietnam chose Japan's HSR construction package even though Chinese bid was half-priced. Mongolia is laying its new coal rail in Russian gauge to specifically exclude the possibility of it being connected to China. Would India, China's primary security adversary, connect its railway with China's? Of course not.

There is more to railway than a simple mean of transportation. Chinese failure to understand these political implications ensures that this project would not materialize.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #109
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Indeed, and to piss of India even more incident at the rail line under construction between Pakistan and China through Pakistan controlled Kashmir, The Pakistan troops guarding the provice were withdrawn to assist with the flood relief so they had China put 10,000 soldiers into the province to guard it while they were away. China getting involved in the kashmir dispute on one side doesnt bode well for the future.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
For passenger transportation, nothing beats jumbo jet especially for such a long journey.
Except for the fact that we still don't have a way to operate a jumbojet on nuclear power, and oil will eventually become to valuable a commodity to use for burning in engines...
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:41 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Indeed, and to piss of India even more incident at the rail line under construction between Pakistan and China through Pakistan controlled Kashmir, The Pakistan troops guarding the provice were withdrawn to assist with the flood relief so they had China put 10,000 soldiers into the province to guard it while they were away. China getting involved in the kashmir dispute on one side doesnt bode well for the future.
So you are saying there 10,000 Chinese soldiers in Pakistan.??? Source, please, and an official one.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Indeed, and to piss of India even more incident at the rail line under construction between Pakistan and China through Pakistan controlled Kashmir, The Pakistan troops guarding the provice were withdrawn to assist with the flood relief so they had China put 10,000 soldiers into the province to guard it while they were away. China getting involved in the kashmir dispute on one side doesnt bode well for the future.
Chinese will be in for a fix if true..I hope they are not under estimating the MIGHT of Indian Armed forces...They are playing too much by not allowing Indian force chief on their land..There soldiers entering India without permission ....and disputing Arunachal Pradesh ..not a good going...
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:39 PM   #113
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China getting involved in the kashmir dispute on one side doesnt bode well for the future.
So China's Orient Express will not be connected to following countries because their refusal.

- India
- Mongolia
- Vietnam

The only viable route that I can see is Tibet->Kazakhstan->Russia->Europe.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #114
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The only viable route that I can see is Tibet->Kazakhstan->Russia->Europe.
Why Tibet? Tibet has no border with Kazakhstan. Xinjiang does have such a border.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 07:32 PM   #115
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We should close this thread inmediatly!

otherwise Hyperliller is going to do hara-kiri...
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Old September 19th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #116
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Never going to happen.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #117
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Never going to happen.
Why not?

Can you explain? Because just saying never going to happen doesn't say much.

The articles says: "It might seem like a pipe dream if it weren’t for the fact that China is already about halfway through the construction of the largest high-speed rail (HSR) network in the world with the fastest trains in the world."
I think China can get very far with such a plan. It's an ambitious plan and so is China these days. Of course it will take a long time but it's not impossible.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Disguise View Post
Chinese will be in for a fix if true..I hope they are not under estimating the MIGHT of Indian Armed forces...They are playing too much by not allowing Indian force chief on their land..There soldiers entering India without permission ....and disputing Arunachal Pradesh ..not a good going...
lol, India can't even deal with insurgencies (Maoist, Naxalite, etc) in the eastern 1/3rd of the country, can't stop terrorists from killing people in Mumbai, can't beat Pakistan in Kashmir, already lost a war with China when China's military was much weaker, and you think they are even close to the strength of China? Keep your off-topic trolling elsewhere
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #119
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #120
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That's actually not about this plan, it's about the Pan-Asian Railway Network which is really just a pipe dream. China's plan is passenger HSR across Asia, completely different than this
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