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Old January 31st, 2008, 03:31 PM   #1
hammerlife
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Crossrail 2

The next stage of Crossrail is obviosly Crossrail 2. Probley not due to be completed for at least 25 years, but might as well change talking about Crossrail 1 and move on.

Tied in with this, I would appriciate any information regarding London Underground's proposal of a 'Space Train', where floors would have been lowered and the train would be 1 long joined carriage. Why did TfL drop this idea?

So, why can't Crossrail 2 be built as an underground line using these special Space Trains, testing the viability of the Space Train, which could then be introduced to the LU Network by 2060.

Lets hear your thoughts...
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Last edited by hammerlife; January 31st, 2008 at 03:32 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old January 31st, 2008, 04:09 PM   #2
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The Space Train looks to me to have less standing space than the current stocks. Because the floor is lower and since the trains are round, the lower you go the less floor space there will be. On the current tube stocks you can lean forward to fit in, I don't see how that would work on the Space Train.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 01:45 AM   #3
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The next stage is to start spending more money outside of the capital.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 10:36 PM   #4
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Oh dont start this, I agree with u that more money needs to spent outside the capital but dont start another one of these.
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 09:31 AM   #5
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Following approval of a £5 Billion emergency cash injection from the government and the Mayor of London. I hear Tfl are now investigating the possibility of having 'turbolifts' fitted at all London Underground stations, along with state of the art multi-channel on-board entertainment systems on all trains, leather seats and a club class lounge for Oyster Card holders.
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 07:32 PM   #6
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..

Last edited by ShavenHeaden; February 3rd, 2008 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Actually, no
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 11:23 AM   #7
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http://www.nce.co.uk/news/transport/...2/8610732.blog

I wonder if by Crossrail 2, they are refering to "Chelney" or if alternative ideas are surfacing.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 11:44 AM   #8
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Whats the point in linking to an article I most of us can't read? Why are you still not posting articles properly!?!? I've done the other one on the other thread for you. Please please please do it properly, as I've said before, it isn't rocket science.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 05:44 PM   #9
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Spacetrain was not pursued under PPP as its new - inherently carrying greater risk. On performance based contracts there was no incentive to pursue it.

There's potentially slightly less floor space, but more usable floor space (as with escalator design, most humans are a lot wider in the middle than at the top). No one enjoys the leaning forward, and plenty would appreciate more head height - you'd likely be able to get more on the train anyway, even without the gained floorspace from moving the seating back in the curve of the body and the gangway areas.

Spacetrain is an idea to maximise capacity from our rather unhelpful Edwardian tunnel gauge. No one in their right mind would build more tunnels for a new line to that size unless absolutely necessary. It's not absolutely necessary for CR2, unless we insist of Piccadilly Circus stop, apparently (and I don't understand why a way can't be found, it's hardly Bank).

Spacetrain may well be developed for the Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines where it would be far more helpful.

Crossrail II or Hackney-Chelsea tube would be better built to modern standards where-ever possible, using a cheaper standard stock.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 10:50 PM   #10
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Agreed. Crossrail 2 should be a mainline gauge railway.

Nobody with anything remotely resembling a mammalian neocortex should be considering building another Toytown-gauge railway. Tunnelling isn't all that expensive any more: it's the stations that cost the money. Making the trains and running tunnels a bit bigger will make barely any difference to the project's costs.

(And before anyone whines about London's underbelly being full of crud already, try building a new metro line in Rome sometime. Oh wait: they're building two!)
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 09:23 AM   #11
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http://leonesconsulting.com/ourblog/...eed-rail-link/

Public Consultation due on Crossrail 2 High Speed Rail Link

Whilst most people have heard of the Crossrail High Speed rail project currently underway in London, not many will be familiar with its sister project, Crossrail 2. The other Crossrail scheme was first proposed more than fifty years ago as a way of linking the south west and north east boroughs of London. A potential route was identified in 1991, and the project was given serious consideration in 1995, but it was then placed on a back burner due to costs.

However, with plans for a new high speed rail terminal at Euston, it looks like increasing passenger numbers will place ever increasing pressure on the London transport network. Even though the Chelsea to Hackney rail route appeared to be the favourable option as little as five years ago, Crossrail 2 now appears to be an attractive choice and a public consultation will be going ahead this month

The new Euston station is set to receive up to eighteen trains per hour once the High Speed 2 rail link is fully operational. This means that there could be as many as twenty thousand passengers per hour passing through the doors, which will severely test the capacity of the station to cope and transport lines departing from Euston are likely to be stretched to the limit.

The Crossrail 2 scheme is considered to be a viable solution to the problem of increasing commuter numbers in London. If the project is given the go ahead at a later date, it will involve the construction of a 7.3 km tunnel between the Central Line in south west of London and the District Line. There will also be a connection between Euston and Kings Cross St Pancras, plus several new underground stations along the route.

This seems to be saying that the Chelsea-Hackney route is not now the preferred route for Crossrail 2. What about this tunnel beteen the CL in SW London & the District Line.
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 10:08 AM   #12
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Thanks RBRJ, sorry to be a grump.
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 05:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
If the project is given the go ahead at a later date, it will involve the construction of a 7.3 km tunnel between the Central Line in south west of London and the District Line.
What does this refer to?

Do they mean the opposite - the District in the SW and then the Central (in the east?) - as the original plans?

A Euston stop would help - if 12 cars, this could have a double station to finally link the two complexes.

Euston will also benefit, probably before Crossrail 2, from the 'Northampton Line' slower services (old school!) from MK, Tring etc... running into Crossrail via Old Oak Common, taking the paths of the Paddington terminators.

Hopefully the Class 350 will be cleared for Crossrail running. They should procure something similar, they're excellent.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 10:13 AM   #14
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http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...link_1_3885330
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Old October 20th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #15
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Good.

Transport connections in the South East are excellent IMHO & more cash needs injecting into the Norths infrastructure.

I am not one of these folk who take a hump, when schemes in London are proposed, as I believe it's completely neccessary. However, large parts of the North are neglected (esp the North East).

The proposed Northern Hub will address the issues of capacity in & around Manchester, but for the North to thrive, proposed schemes such as this must happen.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 12:24 AM   #16
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It's absolutely ridiculous that London's asking for yet more public money for a huge project.

With Crossrail, Thameslink, the Olympics, haven't they had enough for now?

Well time for the rest of the country to say no. Build up the infrastructure in the rest of the country first and then we can look at what needs improving in the South East,
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 01:19 AM   #17
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Why is it ridiculous? The transport network in London carries a huge number of people. You can argue it is ridiculous that more money isn't spent on transport so the rest of the country can get the same but to suggest London has had enough is just daft. The London metropolitan area must account for about 25% of the population of England.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 03:14 AM   #18
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Just under 8m people live in London. Around 50m live in England.

More importantly, people go to where there's investment. The more investment in London, the more it will grow. If funding is given to cities outside London, they will grow. This is why it's ridiculous that London's upward spiral should be strengthened.

London has had far more than it's fair share of funding. I'm sure most people would be happy to see spending on major projects suspended in London for 15 years to allow for billions to be poured into regional cities to bring them up to the European standard.

£16bn on Crossrail? It's obscene. Some of the stations are costing over £1bn; more than what some cities are asking for for entire transport systems. And this all comes straight after extensions to the DLR and the Jubilee Line extension; which themselves were on top of previous investment.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 10:36 AM   #19
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For ****s sakes... Just give it a rest you lot
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 02:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Dawz View Post
It's absolutely ridiculous that London's asking for yet more public money for a huge project.

With Crossrail, Thameslink, the Olympics, haven't they had enough for now?

Well time for the rest of the country to say no. Build up the infrastructure in the rest of the country first and then we can look at what needs improving in the South East,
Time for the rest of the country to introduce congestion charging

The business case for the 50 year old Crossrail 2 plans will be hard to ignore over the next 5 years.

We will see the forming of a masterplan for a giant international and national transport hub possibly also as the entry point of a new airport with poor North/South connectivity.

There is a lot of valuable land around the station currently primed for redevelopment

Like Crossrail I it will be seen as a guaranteed cash back investment which no where else in the UK can provide.
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