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Old February 6th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #21
Babaloo
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What about Waddicar?

What constitutes 'north Liverpool' is another topic. Sadly, LCC's remit doesn't make it across Dacre Street.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #22
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for these purposes, Waddicar included in Melling dude! and a nice part of the world it is too. fishing by the canal.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 11:00 AM   #23
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Do you live in Waddicar by any chance? I was there on Sunday... it felt a world away from where I live in Vauxhall and where I'm doing my work in Kirkdale.

I understand that North Liverpool has had years of public spending without it being turned around, but given that psychogeographical reality (you may see getting a social mixture as a long term goal but middle class people moving in are never going to be the first step that kick-starts regeneration and with it remaining a generally low-income area with heavy industrial businesses that also make low-income per hectare, the money to regenerate isn't indigenous to the area) regeneration will have to be started through better targeted public spending than we've had in the past.

The biggest physical problems facing North Liverpool are it's almost complete lack of high quality built environment... Kirkdale has one area of terraced housing and a few nice streets around Westminster Road, Everton has a few churches and a village lock-up; neither of these two even have much left of their original street pattern. Walton and Anfield/Breckfield I think have the most potential in this respect. Personally I love the twisting terraced streets around Townsend Lane and the success of the Tancred Road refurbishment gives me hope for that area. Not to mention the presence of Anfield/new Anfield and a refurbished Stanley Park. Perhaps this is where the Lark Lane of the north could be.

Outside of this I think that the remediation of the low quality environments elsewhere is important. Turn the area back into a collection of 'villages' with recognisable village centres.

Make something of the central docks and the canal, but make it something inclusive... Liverpool Waters to me seems to exclusive. I wouldn't be surprised if they even closed off roads like Sandhills Lane to keep the 'riff-raff' out.

Make the area more permeable overall, it's a nightmare to find your way around... there are loads of high traffic north-south roads which could be an asset but currently just carve up the area speeding people straight through; and there are precious few east-west roads that haven't been truncated... there are no roads at all leading off Scotland Road into Vauxhall.

Start to increase social mixing in places that are nearby and don't suffer the stigma of the rest of North Liverpool, like Orrel, Waterloo and Clubmoor. People of all social standards will be travelling through the area from these places, and if you make it look better, easier to get off the main roads into, and provide unique facilities in North Liverpool that they may want to use then the stigma might start to lift.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #24
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I take it you mean Orrell Park by "Orrel"? That's already a pretty nice area. Although LCC just have it signposted as Walton.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeam View Post
I take it you mean Orrell Park by "Orrel"? That's already a pretty nice area. Although LCC just have it signposted as Walton.
Both Orrell and Orrell Park... though Orrell is in Sefton.

They need to do that signposting properly. Vauxhall is signposted as Everton. Fairfield and Dingle recently gained 'independence' from Kensington and Toxteth respectively, and Grassendale, Cressington, Breckfield, Granby and St Michael's Hamlet don't exist. Though Cressington certainly doesn't need any help in existing, thanks to developers' marketing teams it is starting to invade Garston.

When I lived in Kensington, I saw them first put the signs up for Edge Hill as I used to walk through the area a lot... then after a couple of days, the signs were gone, so I thought 'tch, some scallywag's had off with them already'... when a week later I saw some workmen putting the signs up again, I stopped and told them that the previous signs had only been up a couple of days before they were stolen... 'Oh no, they said... they weren't stolen, we took them down because there was a spelling error' They had said Edgehill instead of Edge Hill. That's civic pride for you.

anyway. looping this round and back on topic, signposting properly would help with my idea of restoring the north as a collection of villages... and Vauxhall, which is the only neighbourhood in Liverpool which was historically part of the Township of Liverpool created in 1207.

Last edited by carlisle; February 7th, 2008 at 03:35 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlisle View Post
Both Orrell and Orrell Park... though Orrell is in Sefton.

They need to do that signposting properly. Vauxhall is signposted as Everton. Fairfield and Dingle recently gained 'independence' from Kensington and Toxteth respectively, and Grassendale, Cressington, Breckfield, Granby and St Michael's Hamlet don't exist. Though Cressington certainly doesn't need any help in existing, thanks to developers' marketing teams it is starting to invade Garston.

When I lived in Kensington, I saw them first put the signs up for Edge Hill as I used to walk through the area a lot... then after a couple of days, the signs were gone, so I thought 'tch, some scallywag's had off with them already'... when a week later I saw some workmen putting the signs up again, I stopped and told them that the previous signs had only been up a couple of days before they were stolen... 'Oh no, they said... they weren't stolen, we took them down because there was a spelling error' They had said Edgehill instead of Edge Hill. That's civic pride for you.

anyway. looping this round and back on topic, signposting properly would help with my idea of restoring the north as a collection of villages... and Vauxhall, which is the only neighbourhood in Liverpool which was historically part of the Township of Liverpool created in 1207.
Vauxhall has only existed since the 19th century when it was created as a council ward.In fact it's only been in popular use in the last 30 years.People from that area say they are from Scotland rd or Vauxhall rd,not Vauxhall. Vauxhall as about as historic as Tower Hill in Kirkby. As regards signage,that one for Everton on Great Howard st,nowhere near Everton,the sign for Walton outside the Queens Arms ,Warbreck Moor in Aintree,half a mile way from Walton.

Last edited by the golden vision; February 7th, 2008 at 04:56 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 06:03 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by the golden vision View Post
Vauxhall has only existed since the 19th century when it was created as a council ward.In fact it's only been in popular use in the last 30 years.People from that area say they are from Scotland rd or Vauxhall rd,not Vauxhall. Vauxhall as about as historic as Tower Hill in Kirkby. As regards signage,that one for Everton on Great Howard st,nowhere near Everton,the sign for Walton outside the Queens Arms ,Warbreck Moor in Aintree,half a mile way from Walton.
We should create a thread for pointing out these errors. I would have called Warbreck Moor Fazakerley/Orrel Park btw. I know Vauxhall hasn't been the name of the area for long, but the area now known as Vauxhall was formerly the townfield and part of the original township of Liverpool. It was where the freemen of Liverpool could graze their horses and cattle. The boundary ran up Great Homer Street and across Boundary Street. It would have been similar to the Town Moor in Newcastle, which, due to historic protection for the use of the city's freemen has remained undeveloped to this day.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 06:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlisle View Post
We should create a thread for pointing out these errors. I would have called Warbreck Moor Fazakerley/Orrel Park btw. I know Vauxhall hasn't been the name of the area for long, but the area now known as Vauxhall was formerly the townfield and part of the original township of Liverpool. It was where the freemen of Liverpool could graze their horses and cattle. The boundary ran up Great Homer Street and across Boundary Street. It would have been similar to the Town Moor in Newcastle, which, due to historic protection for the use of the city's freemen has remained undeveloped to this day.
Yeah,Boundary st was literally that,the boundary between Liverpool and Kirkdale township.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 07:16 PM   #29
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[QUOTE=carlisle;18248581]Do you live in Waddicar by any chance? I was there on Sunday... it felt a world away from where I live in Vauxhall and where I'm doing my work in Kirkdale.

no i live in Bootle 20! but i do like going fishing up that way.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 07:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlisle View Post
Both Orrell and Orrell Park... though Orrell is in Sefton.

They need to do that signposting properly. Vauxhall is signposted as Everton. Fairfield and Dingle recently gained 'independence' from Kensington and Toxteth respectively, and Grassendale, Cressington, Breckfield, Granby and St Michael's Hamlet don't exist. Though Cressington certainly doesn't need any help in existing, thanks to developers' marketing teams it is starting to invade Garston.

When I lived in Kensington, I saw them first put the signs up for Edge Hill as I used to walk through the area a lot... then after a couple of days, the signs were gone, so I thought 'tch, some scallywag's had off with them already'... when a week later I saw some workmen putting the signs up again, I stopped and told them that the previous signs had only been up a couple of days before they were stolen... 'Oh no, they said... they weren't stolen, we took them down because there was a spelling error' They had said Edgehill instead of Edge Hill. That's civic pride for you.

anyway. looping this round and back on topic, signposting properly would help with my idea of restoring the north as a collection of villages... and Vauxhall, which is the only neighbourhood in Liverpool which was historically part of the Township of Liverpool created in 1207.

your so right about them City Of Liverpool district signs. i have seen so many that are incorrectly positioned or some with even the wrong district name on them! eg. going down Townsend Lane towards Broadway at the junction at Queens Drive, it wrongly says Clubmoor instead of Norris Green. The Clubmoor estate is immediately behind you on the right hand side and has the L13 post code. Norris Green is all L11.

Last edited by paulmac35; February 7th, 2008 at 07:27 PM.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #31
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I've created a thread about the signing and neighbourhoods here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=580117

so we can get this one back on topic
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 09:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Liverpool Great Homer Street regeneration gets green light after Tesco loses battle with Sainsbury's

Dec 2 2009 by David Bartlett, TMNW

ONE of the biggest regeneration projects in Liverpool can finally get under way, after supermarket giants Tesco lost a legal battle with rivals Sainsbury’s. “Supermarket wars” was sparked after Sainsbury’s was signed up as the retail partner in the £150m Project Jennifer scheme around the Great Homer Street area, in north Liverpool.

Tesco had originally been in talks with developers St Modwen, and brought legal action to try to proceed with their own plans in the area. But last night a planning inspector ruled in favour of the city council, which is leading Project Jennifer and had rejected Tesco’s scheme for a 27,000 sq ft superstore and separate indoor and outdoor markets. It is the second major blow for Tesco’s plans in Merseyside in the space of a week, after the Government rejected its £400m scheme in Kirkby which included a new stadium for Everton FC.

Project Jennifer involves the building of a 110,000 sq ft supermarket, 80,000 sq ft of non-food retail stores, a market hall, 481 new homes, a health centre, a new library, and 80,000 sq ft of light industrial space. Last night, city leaders said they were delighted the scheme could now get under way, and land assembly for the 45-acre project is due to start in spring next year. Regeneration leader Cllr Peter Millea said: “We have always believed that what is needed here is a scheme to regenerate the district, rather than just a stand-alone store. This decision will enable us to go ahead with a comprehensive regeneration scheme – something which the planning inspector has clearly recognised is what is required in north Liverpool. Project Jennifer is a scheme which is overwhelmingly supported by the local community and they will be pleased that we can now make progress.” He said there was still a long way to go before work could start on site, but the council was committed to seeing the project through because of its importance to the area.

Cllr Jane Corbett, who represents the Everton ward which includes the Project Jennifer area, branded the way Tesco had acted as “immoral”. I am delighted the scheme can now go ahead,” she said. But Tesco always claimed its own plans would kick-start regeneration in the area which has been stalled for years. A spokesman last night denied the company had acted immorally and said it was committed to the area, which is why it had proceeded with its own plans, even after talks with St Modwen collapsed. He said: “We have only just received the decision and we need to review it and consider what we are going to do next. We hoped the scheme we proposed would have been a catalyst for regeneration in the area.”

Liverpool Council and development partner St Modwen had argued that Tesco’s plans would prejudice a comprehensive redevelopment of the area. Michelle Taylor, regional director of St Modwen, said: “We are delighted by the planning inspector’s decision to refuse the free-standing foodstore proposal for Great Homer Street. We have always maintained that the application to build a foodstore in isolation would not have brought about the much- needed regeneration for one of the most deprived areas in the country, and this is something which the planning inspector endorsed. The decision by the planning inspector now means we can begin the next phase of Project Jennifer. This is a long-term, large-scale regeneration project which will provide hundreds of new homes, hundreds of full-time jobs, new community facilities and a large supermarket. We can now get to work on the scheme.”
This is potentially the best news for the north end for many a moon - let's just hope that LCC moves hell and high water to bring it about.

We've waited long enough.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 10:28 AM   #33
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When are we going to see construction for God's sake? Site assembly in Spring? Tesco could force any CPO on their 8 acres to court, so we could be looking at 2012 before building work commences.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 10:30 AM   #34
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I'm really optimistic about this one.

I think there'll be some on site action by 2015.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 11:26 AM   #35
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Tesco are just the scum of the earth. Project Jennifer probably would have been half-built by now if it wasn't for their greed.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 01:13 PM   #36
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Great news....; )
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 01:43 PM   #37
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This is great news for the city. However I don't expect Tesco to go quietly from this site. I imagine that deals are being done behind the scenes to ensure a speedy purchase of their land in return for goodness knows what concessions with the rest of the city? I hope that's not true, but experience suggests otherwise.
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Old January 9th, 2010, 11:47 AM   #38
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From the Echo -

Quote:
Tesco will challenge legal battle it lost against Sainsbury’s over a multi-million pound plan to revamp north Liverpool

Jan 9 2010 by Vicki Kellaway, Liverpool Echo

SUPERMARKET giants Tesco will seek a judicial review over the decision to turn down its application for a major new development.

Tesco will challenge the legal battle it lost against Sainsbury’s over a multi-million pound plan to revamp north Liverpool.

The company will seek a review of the decision which favoured its rivals to open a supermarket as part of the project in the Great Homer Street area.

Sainsbury’s was chosen to be the retail partner of the £150m Project Jennifer which is seen as central to improve the Everton and Kirkdale areas.

The city council is leading the project and has already rejected Tesco’s scheme for a 27,000 sq ft superstore and indoor and outdoor markets.

But Tesco was previously in talks with the developers St Modwen and brought legal action to try and proceed with its own plans.

A planning inspector backed the city council’s decision to refuse Tesco’s application following a public inquiry.
Article continues here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...52-25559441/2/

Disappointing, although not surprising.
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Old January 9th, 2010, 08:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris B View Post
From the Echo -



Article continues here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...52-25559441/2/

Disappointing, although not surprising.
Another ten years before this gets built it is disapointing.
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Old January 9th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeam View Post
Tesco are just the scum of the earth. Project Jennifer probably would have been half-built by now if it wasn't for their greed.
Project Jenifer was the biggest pile of suburban shite though. It is not like something amazing has been lost. A plague on all their houses I say.

Let's start building a real city again in the north end....yes?
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