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Old March 25th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #141
Romania1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post
It's only a 10 minute walk from Lime Street, too.
I think you mean a 10 minute sprint.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Tom Hughes View Post
I think the development is by definition a site-led project, which while it would benefit from such a link it is not pre-requisite. It is an attempt to re-establish this locality as a retail area for the north-end, prompting new strong residential elements too, to boost an area which has been laying fallow for over a generation. Given the proximity to town, a regular shuttle service to the city-centre could be provided by just 2-3 buses operating in rotation, not to mention large car-parking capacity as an enticement for North-end car-owners using the retail area as their stop-off, and starting point for all visits to town....... broadening the city-centre into Everton.
The area may be in decline, or course. But this is an opportunity to move to a rapid-transit station
forming a new min-centre, to assist in guaranteeing success. The station could a part of the
project. Look at the map below, the aril line make nearly a complet circle of the district. The
centre section of the rail lines should be parkland and developments on the rail lines around it,
then all around access the park in the centre. Because it was a dense district at one point does not
mean it has to continue to be so. Move to where there is most benefit.

Look at the map again. Or ideally, branch off the Northern Line at Liverpool Waters leaving an
interchange station at the Waterloo Tunnel and tunnel up, going roughly east, to the eastern
section Outer Loop Line, leaving an interchange station on the Canada Dock Branch Line. A line that
would run right through that rail dead spot making a metro out of it. Then the project would fine.

All we are doing is reinforcing the mistakes of the past and not playing to the city's assets. It is sad
when these out of place projects get the go ahead. No joined up thinking again.


Last edited by Romania1; March 25th, 2011 at 12:03 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 12:12 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romania1 View Post
I think you mean a 10 minute sprint.
No, a 10 minute walk (if that) - depending, of course, on how fit you are. Here's a map of the scheme:



And here's a fly-through

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Old March 25th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romania1 View Post
The area may be in decline, or course. But this is an opportunity to move to a rapid-transit station
forming a new min-centre, to assist in guaranteeing success. The station could a part of the
project. Look at the map below, the aril line make nearly a complet circle of the district. The
centre section of the rail lines should be parkland and developments on the rail lines around it,
then all around access the park in the centre. Because it was a dense district at one point does not
mean it has to continue to be so. Move to where there is most benefit.

Look at the map again. Or ideally, branch off the Northern Line at Liverpool Waters leaving an
interchange station at the Waterloo Tunnel and tunnel up, going roughly east, to the eastern
section Outer Loop Line, leaving an interchange station on the Canada Dock Branch Line. A line that
would run right through that rail dead spot making a metro out of it. Then the project would fine.

All we are doing is reinforcing the mistakes of the past and not playing to the city's assets. It is sad
when these out of place projects get the go ahead. No joined up thinking again.

None of that can affect this development (as it's not in the same vicinity), which addresses a real need that simultaneously builds onto other Northern city-centre developments nearby. Expanding the whole scope, and creating other opportunities at the same time.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #145
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The whole circle inside the rail lines needs rethinking. Old mini-centres need moving to where they are of greater benefit.

Stations need to be in teh complex. 10 minutes is optimistsic. More 15 to 20 minutes. You have to be realistic. Who is going to that in mid Januaray with bags of heavy shopping?

No need to make excuses for what will be a mistake.

Last edited by Romania1; March 25th, 2011 at 01:13 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 01:57 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romania1 View Post
The whole circle inside the rail lines needs rethinking. Old mini-centres need moving to where they are of greater benefit.

Stations need to be in teh complex. 10 minutes is optimistsic. More 15 to 20 minutes. You have to be realistic. Who is going to that in mid Januaray with bags of heavy shopping?

No need to make excuses for what will be a mistake.
I think you're seriously confusing the issues John. The thread is about re-inventing what used to be one of the most vibrant shopping and residential areas in the whole city. The need is there NOW.... You cannot just make every subject/development fit your circle-line scheme, as it has NO relevance to this thread. The circle-line will never pass by Great Homer Street. With the close proximity to the city-centre, the already regular bus services, and/or a new dedicated shuttle could more than satisfy demand. This is a way of expanding the city-centre developments into the inner core residential areas boosting both in terms of fabric, connectivity and perception.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 10:05 PM   #147
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Project Jennifer when built still remains cut off from the city centre by what is effectively a motorway. New ways need to be found to reconnect Everton with Islington, and that end of the city centre. Density should be encouraged in the area, and the Scotand Road side of this could do with new more attractive bridges across the tunnel opening. The underpass is foul and dangerous. The approach to the tunnel could benefit from better lighting, possibly using the white street lighting which is used on newer developments. I can't think of any major urban project of the 60's and 70's that had a more detrimental effect on it's community than the building of the Kingsway tunnel through Everton.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 02:43 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hughes View Post
The thread is about re-inventing what used to be one of the most vibrant shopping and residential areas in the whole city.
"Was" is the key word. Trying to reinvent what is not reinventable is foolish. Play to your strengths and rapid-transit rail is the key one.

The area inside the rail circle needs to be dense on the rail lines and parkland inside. Or, run a line through the circle bi-secting it. As that is remote, then moving to the assets is the only way. As Atlanta in the USA is doing with its belt line.

It is so simple and easy.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 01:29 PM   #149
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romania1 View Post
"Was" is the key word. Trying to reinvent what is not reinventable is foolish. Play to your strengths and rapid-transit rail is the key one.
So, inner city living is no longer possible (or reinventable)? You think leaving these areas unpopulated is wise?

These populations live on top of town... the focal point of all public transit systems.... they can readily access connections to all parts of the city-region and beyond. The problem with this city is that it was built for over 1 million inhabitants and less than half that now live in it.... with massive voids around the city centre and ensuing inefficient distribution to often comically low density peripherals that can barely support a corner shop, and are almost unpoliceable. It is imperitive that the inner core is filled with sustainable developments and population densities. Hence this one.... which may promote further developments across the Loop, Everton ridge and Islington and Scotty. We certainly don't need to enhance the doughnut effect that has afflicted some US cities...
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Old March 26th, 2011, 01:38 PM   #150
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romania1 View Post
"Was" is the key word. Trying to reinvent what is not reinventable is foolish. Play to your strengths and rapid-transit rail is the key one.
So, inner city living is no longer possible (or reinventable)? You think leaving these areas unpopulated is wise?

These populations live on top of town... the focal point of all public transit systems.... they can readily access connections to all parts of the city-region and beyond. The problem with this city is that it was built for over 1 million inhabitants and less than half that now live in it.... with massive voids around the city centre and ensuing inefficient distribution to often comically low density peripherals that can barely support a corner shop, and are almost unpoliceable. It is imperitive that the inner core is filled with sustainable developments and population densities. Hence this one.... which may promote further developments across the Loop, Everton ridge and Islington and Scotty. We certainly don't need to enhance the doughnut effect that has afflicted some US cities...
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Old March 26th, 2011, 02:10 PM   #151
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So, inner city living is no longer possible (or reinventable)? You think leaving these areas unpopulated is wise?
It was clear what I was saying. The population moves to the rapid-transit lines, either side of them and have parks in the centre of the circling rapid-transit lines. The parts the lines do not access.
  1. The population needs top class rapid-transit rail access, move them to the lines
  2. The population needs open space, put that in the centre where there are no lines.
Quote:
These populations live on top of town... the focal point of all public transit systems....
They do not. They need rapid-transit to get to the centre - do not give me this 10 minutes walk etc. I know Liverpool backwards. People want door to door as much as poosible. With rapid-trnsit that is direct to all major quarters.
Quote:
The problem with this city is that it was built for over 1 million inhabitants and less than half that now live in it.... with massive voids around the city centre and ensuing inefficient distribution to often comically low density peripherals that can barely support a corner shop, and are almost unpoliceable. It is imperitive that the inner core is filled with sustainable developments and population densities. Hence this one.... which may promote further developments across the Loop, Everton ridge and Islington and Scotty. We certainly don't need to enhance the doughnut effect that has afflicted some US cities...
  • The city has a large footprint - the size of Paris and the population has dwindled leaving baren parts. That is only Liverpool and not taking into account the Wirral.
  • The only way to get these areas populated again is get them connected by rapid-transit rail.
  • The population around Scotland Rd worked mainly on or near the docks, so was self-contained. That is no longer the case. They need fast transport access to all the city region.
  • The population may work in the city centre, Birkenhead, docks, Speke, Kirkby, etc. They NEED rapid-transit access.
  • The population NEEDS to move around the immediate districts, for leisure and shopping.
Trying to claw back somthing that was, is ridiculous. The situation has totaly changed. The area should have been ressesed with joined up thinking with rapid-transit as its core and teh centres of mini-districts. That is how succesful cities all over the world do it. Not in Liverpool though, and they can''t figure out why they never make any significant progress.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 02:25 PM   #152
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The only way to get Project Jennifer and the district it serves a major success is to run in rapid-transit rail lines from the Northern Line.This can be over the MerseyTunnel approach roads, but it will be a terminal station, while it really needs to be a through line.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 06:27 PM   #153
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The Seaman's Orphanage, Newsham Park.

What will become of this?
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Old March 26th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #154
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Detail. The Seaman's Orphanage.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by openlyJane View Post


The Seaman's Orphanage, Newsham Park.

What will become of this?

I will one day win the EuroMillions, turn this into my personal fortress, and invite you all over for beer, dodgy European cinema and Quorn.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romania1 View Post
It was clear what I was saying. The population moves to the rapid-transit lines, either side of them and have parks in the centre of the circling rapid-transit lines. The parts the lines do not access.
  1. The population needs top class rapid-transit rail access, move them to the lines
  2. The population needs open space, put that in the centre where there are no lines.

They do not. They need rapid-transit to get to the centre - do not give me this 10 minutes walk etc. I know Liverpool backwards. People want door to door as much as poosible. With rapid-trnsit that is direct to all major quarters.

  • The city has a large footprint - the size of Paris and the population has dwindled leaving baren parts. That is only Liverpool and not taking into account the Wirral.
  • The only way to get these areas populated again is get them connected by rapid-transit rail.
  • The population around Scotland Rd worked mainly on or near the docks, so was self-contained. That is no longer the case. They need fast transport access to all the city region.
  • The population may work in the city centre, Birkenhead, docks, Speke, Kirkby, etc. They NEED rapid-transit access.
  • The population NEEDS to move around the immediate districts, for leisure and shopping.
Trying to claw back somthing that was, is ridiculous. The situation has totaly changed. The area should have been ressesed with joined up thinking with rapid-transit as its core and teh centres of mini-districts. That is how succesful cities all over the world do it. Not in Liverpool though, and they can''t figure out why they never make any significant progress.

So you're saying the inner city should be a park with the city centre in the middle of it, and the rest of us should cluster around your circle line that doesn't even exist, and probably never will? That's farcical, and will never happen, nor should it. Most people who live in or near the city-centre have saturated bus routes serving them... that is basic logistics of routes converging on one focus. The nearer you get to that centre point the more routes become available to residents. These places can ALL access the city centre in minutes, including waiting times. I went to school in Everton. Most of my family lived very close to, and even on this site.... it is even walkable in minutes, but as there are buses every few secs along Scotty it's hardly necessary. Mass rapid transit is only really necessary/advantagous for moving large numbers over distances of several miles..... if far greater numbers live within smaller catchment (ie within the inner core).... then mass rapid transit can become redundant. If the present Liverpool population was of the same density of say 100yrs ago, it would probably all fit comfortably within that inner core... and the place would all work far more efficiently.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #157
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Tom, I am off for pint or two, I will be back later. There has been a lot of knobheads active this evening. Good reading. A medical conference full of them on here.

Amazing. One thinks he is Scarecrow.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #158
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Quote:
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I will one day win the EuroMillions, turn this into my personal fortress, and invite you all over for beer, dodgy European cinema and Quorn.
that looks like Park Hospital in Newsham Park no?
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Old April 4th, 2011, 09:46 AM   #159
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Have been trying to discover how the anfield-breckfield never ending regeneration plan is going. Not much information on the net, though.

Does anybody know if they are already refurbishing and redeveloping the st domingo vale-venice st stretch?

There seems to be a huge plot of empty land at the westminster rd/sellar st intersection.....looks perfect for a high density residential project. Any movement on that front?

regards from the Basque Country (BCo)/Euskal Herria (EH)
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Old April 13th, 2011, 10:52 AM   #160
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From the Daily Post -

Quote:
£150m Project Jennifer threatens 138-year-old Liverpool business Chas E Prosser

£150m Project Jennifer threatens 138-year-old Liverpool business Chas E Prosser

A 138-YEAR-OLD business last night claimed it will be “extinguished” by a £150m project to regenerate a deprived part of north Liverpool.

Chas E Prossor, in Dryden Street, Everton, imports and distributes protective clothing and was formed in 1873.

But Richard Prossor, the third generation of his family to run the business, said the Project Jennifer plan for Great Homer Street and the surrounding area threatens his company.

The scheme includes building a new Sainsbury’s supermarket and will create 1,100 jobs.

Developer St Modwen and Liverpool Council want to compulsory purchase businesses in Dryden Street, saying they are rundown and the whole area needs regenerating.

Mr Prossor told the Daily Post he has so far not been offered any alternative premises which meet his needs.
Article continues here - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...2534-28509246/
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