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Old January 25th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #221
TedStriker
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Thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure why you say the points at which the new route would join the existing network make the line of little use.

Are you saying the existing line from Ceglédbercel to Szolnok is too crap to allow for any benefits made by the bypass to be gained?

And what's wrong with choosing Bicske as a Western connection point?

With regards to the trains that currently pass through, and, in some cases, get sorted at Ferencvaros yard, quite a significant number of trains entering and leaving Budapest carry traffic that has no connection with Budapest itself.

In addition, over time, more freight trains will surely be run between the East, the Balkans and Turkey with Central and North Europe, and these will, surely, be passing through Budapest.

Nevertheless, please detail the idea that you have that will provide more capacity for freight trains, so that I can compare the two options.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
- rebuild the Szolnok-Hatvan-Vac railway which is already electrified but is very crappy and in theory should also be able to relieve a lot of capacity on the East-West freight rout given the Vac-Pozsony 2x2 main railroad is already there and was before Trianon the main connection between Budapest and Wien

OK, I see where you're coming from.

Don't get angry, but I still prefer the freight bypass proposed in the study. Sorry.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #223
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And I think that Szolnok is close enough to Budapest to serve as a marshalling yard hub for the city.

In other words, I think it would be efficient to run trip freights between the Budapest area and Szolnok.

In addition, block trains, such as the intermodal services, could still quite easily reach points in Budapest directly, such as the BILK.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #224
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What is wrong with Bicske/Ceglédbercel? The fact that there is no difference in terms of the traffic volumes before/after these towns: imagine a congested road that is 10 kms long and you build additional capacity for 5 kms but then you feed it right back for the remaining 5 kms.

Additional capacity should be built between Szolnok/Gyor in this hypothetical scenario, although in reality the additional capacity needed is between Budapest and Wien, and there are two dual track electrified railways between the two cities, it just so happens, that one of those lines runs through Slovakia and it is massively underutilized.

To that end, we should develop/rebuild the following lines: Szolnok-Vac, Adony-Szekesfehervar-Komarom-Komarno and maybe build a new line from Cegledbercel to Adony, allowing for direct and significantly shortened services between Szekesfehervar and Szolnok.

A partially new, partially refurbished line between Szekesfehervar and Szolnok would connect almost all eastern county capitals with almost all western county capitals completely bypassing Budapest, eliminating the need to change trains/stations inside Budapest and cut at least 1,5 hrs from IC journey times on routes such as: Veszprem-Debrecen or for example Pecs-Nyiregyhaza etc.

But this is just an example of how much better this enormous chunk of cash could be spent in Hungary.


The fact of the matter is, traffic-wise this line would be equivalent to a ~few km long 3rd pair of rails inside Budapest, seriously!
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Old January 27th, 2013, 12:33 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
What is wrong with Bicske/Ceglédbercel? The fact that there is no difference in terms of the traffic volumes before/after these towns: imagine a congested road that is 10 kms long and you build additional capacity for 5 kms but then you feed it right back for the remaining 5 kms.

OK. But the idea of the bypass is to relive the lines through Budapest itself, not the lines feeding into and out of Budapest.

I'd imagine that the sections of line you refer to can actually cope quite well with the mix of passenger and freight traffic that exists, because, being in 'open country', the lines speeds and are higher and it's easier therefore to funnel trains through.

Budapest on the other hand forces all trains to slow down, and, in the case of the passenger trains, stop at certain points.

Some of the freight trains also have to stop to be sorted or to be terminated, although some just sit around and wait for a path to carry on out of town.

The bypass does therefore make total sense from a traffic management viewpoint - as long as you are thinking about releasing the lines of Budapest itself as well as speeding up transit freight traffic.

Not all freight trains would use the proposed bypass, of course.

Those freights carrying traffic for Budapest itself would still be able to recess in the loops which run parallel to Fék Utca, while Szolnok marshalling yard could take on the role of a strategic yard for the wider Hungarian region.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 09:13 PM   #226
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Extraordinary news

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Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Business & Economy | February 21, 2013 | 13:41
Chinese initiative to build high-speed rail
Source: Tanjug

BELGRADE -- The Chinese Embassy in Budapest has launched an initiative for the construction of high-speed rail on Corridor 10 between Belgrade and Budapest.

Tanjug is quoting Serbian Ministry of Transport sources who on Thursday said that the rail would have trains traveling faster than 300 km/h.

The total value of the investment would add up to EUR 2 billion, early estimates show.

According to Chinese representatives, officials should discuss the possibility of building the railway for trains that go at speeds of over 300 km/h since it would be built in almost perfect conditions thanks to the environment.

Trains connecting the two countries would be modern, of the latest generation which are used in China nowadays.

Hungary knows about the idea and the first steps in terms of the initiation of talks have been made, and report about this has been presented during the recent meeting between the head of the Economic Department of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and Serbian Minister of Transport Milutin Mrkonjić, the news agency reported.

Talks on the model and the ownership structure of the project should also be conducted. At this stage, it is known that Chinese investors allocated the funds from the Chinese Development Fund aimed at investments in south-east Europe.

Chinese officials suggested that loans should be ensured and this matter should be discussed by the governments of Serbia and Hungary.

The Chinese initiative for the construction of high-speed rail was also discussed at the session which the joint Hungary-Serbia commission held last December, and it was included in the conclusions on the commission's work.

According to analyses issued so far and the data procured from economic and expert teams, the railway would pay off and its construction would be justified since the flow of passengers, goods and capital between the two countries is constantly increasing.

Back in 1992, the European Commission defined the idea for the construction of the Belgrade-Budapest railway as one of the priorities in the sector of the development of railway infrastructure.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 11:56 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Extraordinary news

more like kafkaesque surrealism

Quote:
Talks on the model and the ownership structure of the project should also be conducted. At this stage, it is known that Chinese investors allocated the funds from the Chinese Development Fund aimed at investments in south-east Europe.

Chinese officials suggested that loans should be ensured and this matter should be discussed by the governments of Serbia and Hungary.
so which one is it?

i'll try to contain my amusement when the answer comes out...

at least general Marshall pushed schools and factories not white elephants
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:15 AM   #228
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From what I understand it should be funded from that 10 billion dollar scheme http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/China_offers_Africa_financial_aid_including_$10_billion_in_loans But they've already announced projects of at least 2 billion in Serbia so I guess it will be expanded just like a similar http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/China_offers_Africa_financial_aid_including_$10_billion_in_loans transformed into http://www.cadfund.com/
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Old February 27th, 2013, 07:55 PM   #229
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Do you have any additional information?

As far as I know our government supports the idea/plan, only in a 200-250 km/h version...
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Old February 28th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
Do you have any additional information?

As far as I know our government supports the idea/plan, only in a 200-250 km/h version...
There should have been a joint commission of Serbia and Hungary meeting these days. But there was nothing in the news. I don't have any insider information.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #231
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From International Railway Journal, Thursday, February 28, 2013


Hungary to build new freight line


THE Hungarian government has given the go-ahead for a long-discussed project to build a 113km freight line between Tatabánya and Cegléd, by-passing Budapest. This would be the biggest new railway construction in the country since 1912.

The new electrified line will be a double track, and will accommodate speeds of up to 160km/h, although it will be designed only for use by freight trains. With junctions towards Székesfehérvár, Pusztaszabolcs and Kelebia, the line will serve traffic from Austria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Ukraine.
The proposed route of the new railway is virtually the same in length as the current trip via Budapest and would cost Forints 300bn ($US 1.34bn) to develop. It is the least expensive of all the alternatives examined, apart from developing the existing route through Budapest which would cost 20% less.

Funding for the project is most likely to come from European Union funds, and if secured, construction could begin in 2017 with the line taking three years to build.

However, a recent €1bn cooperation agreement between the Hungarian government and the China Development Bank (CDB) might be used an alternative source for financing construction. If the government decides to proceed with this option, construction could start as early as 2014 and be completed in 2017. Chinese investment was expected to fund the proposed Budapest airport railway. However, with the demise of Hungarian national air carrier MALÉV in spring 2012, this has been dropped from the agenda in favour of the Tatabánya - Cegléd line and possibly a high-speed connection from Budapest to Belgrade.

A final decision on financing the project is expected from the Hungarian government in the second half of 2013.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 08:34 AM   #232
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28.02.13
Stadler wins order for the delivery of 48 FLIRTs in Hungary

Stadler Rail has won a tender for the delivery of altogether 48 electric multiple units to Hungary. The public procurement was issued jointly by Hungarian State Railways MÁV and Austrian-Hungarian regional operator GYSEV in November 2012. The result of the tender was announced on 26 February, the delivery contract will be signed by the parties during the next 30 days. Within the frames of the contract Stadler will deliver 42 FLIRT units for MÁV and 6 units for GYSEV. The new four-part trains will be single voltage low floor vehicles with a seating capacity of 200 and a maximum speed of 160 km/h. The last train will have to be delivered by Stadler by Autumn 2015.

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/news/2...f-48-flirts-i/
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 10:16 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Extraordinary news
That would be quite an improvement: from 30 kmh to 300 kmh. There are of course some arguments for this: the topography is extremely flat, so few serious tunnels or bridges should be necessary. 2 billion is probably a good price for a line of this length. Novi Sad, Subotica, and Szeged are all lined up along the direct route, so it could also be used for domestic commutes besides being a super-fast city to city link.
But it would take some major obstacles too: Serbian Railways is at the moment in a serious rut and it is hard to imagine a company which cannot find money to maintain their locomotives to be smoothly operating a HSR system. SZ would have to become a completely different company, and that would take additional money. Also we do not know the direction Serb-EU relations will take: will the visawaiver be permanent and will there be membership in the long run? Then this line makes sense. But if the feared Euro depression gets worse and Serbian economy suffers more or God forbid some paranoid German minister of interior insists on repealing the visa waiver for Serbs to Schengenistan, the investment would be for nothing. I would like to see this line happening and I have come to believe that the Chinese are the only ones who could ever introduce serious 21st century sustainable traffic infrastructure in Eastern Central Europe, but I cannot quite overcome my scepticism.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 03:06 AM   #234
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It quite obviously is not intended for Serbian tourists visiting Budapest for those things to play any role. Neither is this a project that is dependent on such minor issues. This is a project for decades to come. This is about getting a foothold in a busy Eurasian railway corridor (mostly cargo!). But in order to get that something needs to be offered back to Serbia and Hungary and I guess that is the HSR passenger service on that same route.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiskaloz View Post
28.02.13
Stadler wins order for the delivery of 48 FLIRTs in Hungary

Stadler Rail has won a tender for the delivery of altogether 48 electric multiple units to Hungary. The public procurement was issued jointly by Hungarian State Railways MÁV and Austrian-Hungarian regional operator GYSEV in November 2012. The result of the tender was announced on 26 February, the delivery contract will be signed by the parties during the next 30 days. Within the frames of the contract Stadler will deliver 42 FLIRT units for MÁV and 6 units for GYSEV. The new four-part trains will be single voltage low floor vehicles with a seating capacity of 200 and a maximum speed of 160 km/h. The last train will have to be delivered by Stadler by Autumn 2015.

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/news/2...f-48-flirts-i/
More FLIRTs? I liked older Hungarian trains better, they were more comfortable (except for 20-30 of the hottest days in summer). Flirt and Desiro are very uncomfortable trains IMO.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #236
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what about connecting bratislava with budapest through mosonmagyarovar ? the track betwenn bratislava-petrzalka and rajka is not used at all although there is a big potential as many slovaks live in rajka, bezenye, moson, level and so... maybe some slovak-hungarian regio could bed good idea, too.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 12:55 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by vitacit View Post
what about connecting bratislava with budapest through mosonmagyarovar ? the track betwenn bratislava-petrzalka and rajka is not used at all although there is a big potential as many slovaks live in rajka, bezenye, moson, level and so... maybe some slovak-hungarian regio could bed good idea, too.
The Slovakian government is heavily against that connection - I don't exactly understand why.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 05:56 PM   #238
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me either. might be that there is slovak nationalist "card" but come on - we are in 21st century, we've got schengen, open borders, people live and work across the border. hungary, doesn't matter the history, is our neighbour, important business partner, intertwined politics. polititians should get rid of their backwards thinking and do something normal. for example international regional transport system. it works good between bratislava and wien. why not between bratislava and border region of hungary ?

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The Slovakian government is heavily against that connection - I don't exactly understand why.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 10:42 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
The Slovakian government is heavily against that connection - I don't exactly understand why.
Any source? Passenger service was stopped at this line as it was stopped on dozens of other lines in Slovakia. It was stopped between 1972 and 1987, then briefly reopened and now it's again without regular passenger trains. Although couple of years ago there were at least some seasonal long distance trains such as R 475 Jadran or R 374 Pannonia. Actually, Slovakia is going to invest into this line in upcoming years - signalling will be upgraded to ETCS.

I guess the demand for commuter rail transport from Hungary to Bratislava isn't high enough to justify reopening of this line for passenger trains. At least not for now. It cannot be compared to demand on line between Bratislava and Vienna. Currently there are buses running between Bratislava and Rajka, and express buses Bratislava - Gyor. But, this situation may change in few years as more and more Slovaks are moving to Hungarian villages close to Bratislava.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiskaloz View Post
28.02.13
Stadler wins order for the delivery of 48 FLIRTs in Hungary

Stadler Rail has won a tender for the delivery of altogether 48 electric multiple units to Hungary. The public procurement was issued jointly by Hungarian State Railways MÁV and Austrian-Hungarian regional operator GYSEV in November 2012. The result of the tender was announced on 26 February, the delivery contract will be signed by the parties during the next 30 days. Within the frames of the contract Stadler will deliver 42 FLIRT units for MÁV and 6 units for GYSEV. The new four-part trains will be single voltage low floor vehicles with a seating capacity of 200 and a maximum speed of 160 km/h. The last train will have to be delivered by Stadler by Autumn 2015.

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/news/2...f-48-flirts-i/
It's official. The contract was signed today.

http://www.vg.hu/vallalatok/kozleked...rzodest-399960
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