Seattle: 5th and Columbia - Page 7

mhays · May 26th, 2008, 06:30 PM

Civic center was never considered a start. The City demolished the site, then looked for a developer to build something.

You can consider it a start when they start excavating and shoring.

From there, you can consider it uncertain until it opens. They can stop at any point along the way, particularly early.

Seattle206 · May 26th, 2008, 07:23 PM

Drove by this site yesterday (5/25), and it has been cleared completely. There are two huge backhoes on the site looking ready to begin digging. It does appear that construction is about to commence.

TheBellevueBoss · May 29th, 2008, 05:32 PM

saw the site yesterday...I dunno about this one guys.....backhoes are gone and so is everything else but a fence....I also don't see a construction lender sign on the fence either...this project could vey well be on hold for the time being.......hope I'm seriously wrong....

Seasun · May 29th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Your guess is as good as mine. This is a pretty sensitive shoring design with the sanctuary being underpinned and an incredibly tight site with really old utilities in the adjacent right-of-ways. It might just be a matter of having the shoring design approved by the City which can take some time.

mhays · May 29th, 2008, 09:39 PM

It's possible that the backhoes were in the demo contract. I think the developer has always talked about a June start. I have no idea what's happening but none of these sound like bad signs. At minimum, they don't have a permit yet so wouldn't be able to start anyway.

Seattlelife · May 29th, 2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

It's possible that the backhoes were in the demo contract. I think the developer has always talked about a June start. I have no idea what's happening but none of these sound like bad signs. At minimum, they don't have a permit yet so wouldn't be able to start anyway.

I hope you're right. Seattle desperately needs a building like this.

TheBellevueBoss · May 29th, 2008, 10:23 PM

mhays.....is it common to have time lapses between permits? Seems like a waste of money (time, holding costs, interest on construction loan) to have to do that????

Seasun · May 30th, 2008, 12:13 AM

In my experience the permits can be timed too closely. The contractor is chomping at the bit to get going with the work and commit the owner to keep going BUT the design and permitting process is "just-in-time". I think it's pretty typical on larger projects to get a demolition permit, then shoring, then foundation and structure up to street level, then the rest of the shell and core above street level and then tenant improvements/build-out.

TheBellevueBoss · May 30th, 2008, 12:27 AM

good info...thanks

mhays · May 30th, 2008, 02:27 AM

Demo and excavation/shoring phases are sometimes timed "comfortably early" because they can be unpredictable. Of course I'm not an expert in this, but you see it frequently.

Holding costs and general conditions can add cost, but sometimes taking a breath and doing things in a more orderly manner will save far more money and actually get the job done more quickly. You can remove a lot of hurdles and unknowns (i.e. risk) in advance that way.

CorePlus Seattle · May 30th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBellevueBoss

saw the site yesterday...I dunno about this one guys.....backhoes are gone and so is everything else but a fence....I also don't see a construction lender sign on the fence either...this project could vey well be on hold for the time being.......hope I'm seriously wrong....

Spot on Bellevueboss...

The rumor circulaing among my private equity friends in San Fran is that there is no lender. There is a lot to this story...

TheBellevueBoss · May 30th, 2008, 07:47 PM

SF???? It sounds like they are looking for an equity partner on this if they snooping around SF....hope they having some luck finding one.....I'll check with my contacts in SF to see if I can find anything.....

velciane · May 30th, 2008, 08:28 PM

I hate rumor...

CorePlus Seattle · May 30th, 2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBellevueBoss

SF???? It sounds like they are looking for an equity partner on this if they snooping around SF....hope they having some luck finding one.....I'll check with my contacts in SF to see if I can find anything.....

They have an equity partner...Stockbridge. Most people outside Seattle refer to this tower in terms of Stockbridge not Daniels/Nitze. Daniels does not have the $$$ for a project like this, alone.

Stockbridge is very, very well capitalized but no one builds without debt.

If you know anyone in deal sourcing/bokers/etc in SF ask them about the project costs and lease rates they are floating?

CorePlus Seattle · June 11th, 2008, 06:56 PM

I hear the pieces are falling into place....look for the project to start this summer.

FYI - I also hear that this tower could cost nearl 1/3 more to construct that anything else being built in seattle.....if that is true we may need to start some sort of signature bet on this project going bankrupt.

Seasun · June 12th, 2008, 05:49 AM

I agree that "the pieces are falling into place". I've only spoken to one person involved in the project and they were proceeding with planning their part of the work. If this project had an unknown start date (like "1 Hotel") I would hope the developer/contractor wouldn't be paying street use fees on the 5th Ave sidewalk. The fees ramp up to $1.20/sq ft of right-of-way per 10 day period for an arterial like 5th.

***Bond James Bond*** · June 12th, 2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorePlus Seattle

I hear the pieces are falling into place....look for the project to start this summer.

I like the sound of that.

Quote:

FYI - I also hear that this tower could cost nearl 1/3 more to construct that anything else being built in seattle.....if that is true we may need to start some sort of signature bet on this project going bankrupt.

Well, as long as they finish it before it goes bankrupt.

cdaniels · June 16th, 2008, 05:41 PM

This article was in the Seattle Times the other day. A section featuring the developer is towards the bottom.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...daybuzz15.html

Seasun · June 17th, 2008, 06:18 AM

Welcome to SSC cdaniels - your name looks a lot like the developer of this project. I just checked if the shoring permit has been issued (not) but i do see that the Phase II permit was applied for today: "Phase II of III. Foundation and structural frame for a new 41 story, 760,000 sq. ft. office building with below grade parking for 290 vehicles per plan."

http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitSt...spx?id=6167300

Vashon118 · July 11th, 2008, 04:41 AM

Damaged church wall uncovered; construction delayed

http://http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008043307_church10.html

Recently discovered damage to downtown Seattle's historic First United Methodist Church sanctuary will require repairs and delay construction of the 660-foot Fifth and Columbia Tower next door.

By Eric Pryne

Seattle Times business reporter

When the sanctuary's south wall was exposed workers found its terra cotta facade crumbling, which will require repairs.

Recently discovered damage to downtown Seattle's historic First United Methodist Church sanctuary will require repairs and delay construction of the 660-foot Fifth and Columbia Tower next door, the owner of both properties said Wednesday.

Daniels Development had planned to start digging a deep hole for the distinctive, asymmetrical skyscraper's foundation and parking garage this summer. Now, work may not start until early March, President Kevin Daniels said.

The target completion date for the 43-story office tower, originally mid-2010, has been moved to July 2011.

The 1908 sanctuary had been scheduled for demolition before Daniels, a leading historic-preservation advocate, bought the church property last year. He said he would preserve it and build an office tower next door on the site of a 1950 church annex.

But when workers demolished the annex this spring, they exposed part of the sanctuary's south wall that had been hidden for nearly 60 years and found its terra cotta facade crumbling, Daniels said.

The damage apparently happened when the annex's concrete wall rammed against the sanctuary during earthquakes, Daniels said. Some of the century-old building's decorative brickwork is resting precariously atop the weakened terra cotta, he said.

Crews plan to start repairs in a few weeks and should finish in September, Daniels said. But if excavation for the office tower started then, workers would be at the bottom of the planned 100-foot hole in December or January, he said, and that would be problematic.

"You never know when you're going to hit a spring in the winter," Daniels said. "You could end up spending a lot of money."

Any drainage problems could threaten the foundations of the sanctuary and the neighboring 1904 Rainier Club, he said.

Digging the hole and repairing the sanctuary wall at the same time probably is possible, Daniels said, but it would be complicated and risky.

Delays in getting a city permit for the excavation also influenced his decision, Daniels said. The construction schedule now for Fifth and Columbia calls for digging to start no later than March 1.

Some commercial real-estate brokers predict that the downtown office market could soften in 2009 or 2010, in part because several big new buildings are scheduled for completion then.

But Daniels said those prognostications didn't influence his decision to wait.

The other buildings under construction, mostly in the Denny Triangle, don't really compete with his project in the downtown core, he said. He had targeted 2010 because that's when several big downtown tenants will be in the market for new space.

The $300 million Fifth and Columbia project has construction financing, and its steel and custom glass have been ordered, Daniels said: "If I had my druthers, I'd still be starting now."

Eric Pryne: 206-464-2231 or epryne@seattletimes.com

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company

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May 26th, 2008, 06:30 PM	#121
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,463 Likes (Received): 125	Civic center was never considered a start. The City demolished the site, then looked for a developer to build something. You can consider it a start when they start excavating and shoring. From there, you can consider it uncertain until it opens. They can stop at any point along the way, particularly early.

May 26th, 2008, 07:23 PM	#122
Seattle206 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 12 Likes (Received): 0	Drove by this site yesterday (5/25), and it has been cleared completely. There are two huge backhoes on the site looking ready to begin digging. It does appear that construction is about to commence.

May 29th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#123
TheBellevueBoss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 881 Likes (Received): 0	saw the site yesterday...I dunno about this one guys.....backhoes are gone and so is everything else but a fence....I also don't see a construction lender sign on the fence either...this project could vey well be on hold for the time being.......hope I'm seriously wrong....

May 29th, 2008, 08:01 PM	#124
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,598 Likes (Received): 48	Your guess is as good as mine. This is a pretty sensitive shoring design with the sanctuary being underpinned and an incredibly tight site with really old utilities in the adjacent right-of-ways. It might just be a matter of having the shoring design approved by the City which can take some time.

May 29th, 2008, 09:39 PM	#125
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,463 Likes (Received): 125	It's possible that the backhoes were in the demo contract. I think the developer has always talked about a June start. I have no idea what's happening but none of these sound like bad signs. At minimum, they don't have a permit yet so wouldn't be able to start anyway.

May 29th, 2008, 10:23 PM	#127
TheBellevueBoss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 881 Likes (Received): 0	mhays.....is it common to have time lapses between permits? Seems like a waste of money (time, holding costs, interest on construction loan) to have to do that????

May 30th, 2008, 12:13 AM	#128
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,598 Likes (Received): 48	In my experience the permits can be timed too closely. The contractor is chomping at the bit to get going with the work and commit the owner to keep going BUT the design and permitting process is "just-in-time". I think it's pretty typical on larger projects to get a demolition permit, then shoring, then foundation and structure up to street level, then the rest of the shell and core above street level and then tenant improvements/build-out.

May 30th, 2008, 12:27 AM	#129
TheBellevueBoss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 881 Likes (Received): 0	good info...thanks

May 30th, 2008, 02:27 AM	#130
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,463 Likes (Received): 125	Demo and excavation/shoring phases are sometimes timed "comfortably early" because they can be unpredictable. Of course I'm not an expert in this, but you see it frequently. Holding costs and general conditions can add cost, but sometimes taking a breath and doing things in a more orderly manner will save far more money and actually get the job done more quickly. You can remove a lot of hurdles and unknowns (i.e. risk) in advance that way.

May 30th, 2008, 07:47 PM	#132
TheBellevueBoss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 881 Likes (Received): 0	SF???? It sounds like they are looking for an equity partner on this if they snooping around SF....hope they having some luck finding one.....I'll check with my contacts in SF to see if I can find anything.....

May 30th, 2008, 08:28 PM	#133
velciane Seattle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 610 Likes (Received): 14	I hate rumor...

June 11th, 2008, 06:56 PM	#135
CorePlus Seattle Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 56 Likes (Received): 0	I hear the pieces are falling into place....look for the project to start this summer. FYI - I also hear that this tower could cost nearl 1/3 more to construct that anything else being built in seattle.....if that is true we may need to start some sort of signature bet on this project going bankrupt.

June 12th, 2008, 05:49 AM	#136
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,598 Likes (Received): 48	I agree that "the pieces are falling into place". I've only spoken to one person involved in the project and they were proceeding with planning their part of the work. If this project had an unknown start date (like "1 Hotel") I would hope the developer/contractor wouldn't be paying street use fees on the 5th Ave sidewalk. The fees ramp up to $1.20/sq ft of right-of-way per 10 day period for an arterial like 5th.

June 16th, 2008, 05:41 PM	#138
cdaniels Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3 Likes (Received): 0	This article was in the Seattle Times the other day. A section featuring the developer is towards the bottom. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...daybuzz15.html

June 17th, 2008, 06:18 AM	#139
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,598 Likes (Received): 48	Welcome to SSC cdaniels - your name looks a lot like the developer of this project. I just checked if the shoring permit has been issued (not) but i do see that the Phase II permit was applied for today: "Phase II of III. Foundation and structural frame for a new 41 story, 760,000 sq. ft. office building with below grade parking for 290 vehicles per plan." http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitSt...spx?id=6167300

July 11th, 2008, 04:41 AM	#140
Vashon118 Bus & ferry dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vashon Island Posts: 709 Likes (Received): 107	Damaged church wall uncovered; construction delayed http://http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008043307_church10.html Recently discovered damage to downtown Seattle's historic First United Methodist Church sanctuary will require repairs and delay construction of the 660-foot Fifth and Columbia Tower next door. By Eric Pryne Seattle Times business reporter When the sanctuary's south wall was exposed workers found its terra cotta facade crumbling, which will require repairs. Recently discovered damage to downtown Seattle's historic First United Methodist Church sanctuary will require repairs and delay construction of the 660-foot Fifth and Columbia Tower next door, the owner of both properties said Wednesday. Daniels Development had planned to start digging a deep hole for the distinctive, asymmetrical skyscraper's foundation and parking garage this summer. Now, work may not start until early March, President Kevin Daniels said. The target completion date for the 43-story office tower, originally mid-2010, has been moved to July 2011. The 1908 sanctuary had been scheduled for demolition before Daniels, a leading historic-preservation advocate, bought the church property last year. He said he would preserve it and build an office tower next door on the site of a 1950 church annex. But when workers demolished the annex this spring, they exposed part of the sanctuary's south wall that had been hidden for nearly 60 years and found its terra cotta facade crumbling, Daniels said. The damage apparently happened when the annex's concrete wall rammed against the sanctuary during earthquakes, Daniels said. Some of the century-old building's decorative brickwork is resting precariously atop the weakened terra cotta, he said. Crews plan to start repairs in a few weeks and should finish in September, Daniels said. But if excavation for the office tower started then, workers would be at the bottom of the planned 100-foot hole in December or January, he said, and that would be problematic. "You never know when you're going to hit a spring in the winter," Daniels said. "You could end up spending a lot of money." Any drainage problems could threaten the foundations of the sanctuary and the neighboring 1904 Rainier Club, he said. Digging the hole and repairing the sanctuary wall at the same time probably is possible, Daniels said, but it would be complicated and risky. Delays in getting a city permit for the excavation also influenced his decision, Daniels said. The construction schedule now for Fifth and Columbia calls for digging to start no later than March 1. Some commercial real-estate brokers predict that the downtown office market could soften in 2009 or 2010, in part because several big new buildings are scheduled for completion then. But Daniels said those prognostications didn't influence his decision to wait. The other buildings under construction, mostly in the Denny Triangle, don't really compete with his project in the downtown core, he said. He had targeted 2010 because that's when several big downtown tenants will be in the market for new space. The $300 million Fifth and Columbia project has construction financing, and its steel and custom glass have been ordered, Daniels said: "If I had my druthers, I'd still be starting now." Eric Pryne: 206-464-2231 or epryne@seattletimes.com Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company