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Old February 15th, 2008, 06:04 PM   #21
Electrify
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Quote:
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Isn't Toronto's 11m radius? It's among the tightest curves anywhere, worldwide.

As far as I can tell, while the S type has a built in curve guide (which is added as a separate piece of steel at tighter curves only for T type, see this image: http://www.tobu.co.jp/rail/torikumi/...support_04.jpg). These curve guides are actually derailment guards. You will also find them at bridges and in parts where they can fit along switches. Why bridges? (Reference image)Wind tunnels over the valleys or other passageways they cross, and this, I would be inclined to suspect, is part of the reason the tram tracks have this derailment guard built into it - every intersection is a potential wind tunnel that can slam the vehicle (yes, it would take a lot of wind to do anything, but it has happened. A Christmas Day derailment along a JR East Line express derailed due to high winds). On curves, the danger is centripedal force, the guard works by keep the inner wheel against the inner edge of the inner rail, thus it is only needed on one side, which is different from bridges where it is on both sides - however, I have seen some train lines in Japan that are 80 years old where they have this guard on the wrong side of the curve. I think in third rail systems, the derailment guard is not needed because the third rail is always on the inner side of curves (bridges on surface sections are exception). As for switches, it is in place there since there are added vibrations at switches on the inner curve side. With trams running in mixed traffic, the threat of collision with a road vehicle acts as a potential derailment threat in the event of an accident. The S rail becomes a key feature in guarding against that ever present possibility, and since it is built into the rail shape itself, this becomes an extremely efficient choice of rail shape.

On top of all that, on in-road sections, there is a constuction advantage with S type that has already been pointed out by elfabyanos. Electrify, check the Queensway section, it should be T type.

Detail showing how it guards against derailment

Presence in switches

These derailment guards are simply built into S type.
Isn't the Queensway section T? I haven't been on it, but from videos I've seen it looks like T rail.
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #22
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Isn't the Queensway section T? I haven't been on it, but from videos I've seen it looks like T rail.
That's what I just said. The reason is that it isn't in-road, thus isn't subject to the traffic threat. The design of that area also doesn't pose the wind-tunnel effect that I talked about.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 10:32 PM   #23
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That's what I just said. The reason is that it isn't in-road, thus isn't subject to the traffic threat. The design of that area also doesn't pose the wind-tunnel effect that I talked about.
Is this wind threat taken into consideration on all tram networks? because Blackpool tram system runs the length of the coast and is regularly hit by 70mph winds (granted no specific wind tunnel) and many of the trams are double deckers and they have no derailment protection on the T-rails.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 10:57 PM   #24
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One thing that makes me wonder on this, although I beleive you are right, why would they not simply use T rail and then in the middle anchor pre-cast concrete road panels?
Not sure how easy pre-cast concrete road panels would be - certainly not cheap, plus the joins between panels would be really susceptible to wear and freeze/thaw weathering. But, just getting the builders to lay concrete and use temporary wood bordering that gets taken up as you said before would be easy. I think there must be some other benefits to s-rail as well otherwise it doesn't make much sense. It must be lighter weight normally though?
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Old February 15th, 2008, 11:46 PM   #25
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I think we have a different type of tram-track:

That hole is nowhere near as deep as a full-sized track would require.
BTW,this is how tracks are laid here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=223
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Old February 16th, 2008, 09:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackpool88 View Post
Is this wind threat taken into consideration on all tram networks? because Blackpool tram system runs the length of the coast and is regularly hit by 70mph winds (granted no specific wind tunnel) and many of the trams are double deckers and they have no derailment protection on the T-rails.
That's on the coast. That's different. Same can be said of the Queensway in Toronto, which is also along the shoreline and on T-rails. What I was arguing was the constant passing of wind-tunnels in a gridded street network every 50-100m, the constant shift between strong wind and no wind suddenly as you cross a downtown. Along a coast, the shifts are not sudden, unless there's a real nasty storm, but gradual, so the vehicle can absorb these strengths of wind on T-rails. It is the sudden changes in force where S rail, I imagine, would become most beneficial, and that would only happen in a grid street network.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 08:13 PM   #27
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Tram rail vs railway rail?
Hmmm, meanwhile, Montreal's pondering introducing a couple of «Tram-trains» . . .
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 03:56 AM   #28
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Hmmm, meanwhile, Montreal's pondering introducing a couple of «Tram-trains» . . .
Regardless of how many cars they use, their classification actually does not change. It is about the individual car design, not the number of cars in a trainset.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 05:52 AM   #29
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From what I can see, there are a few types of construction method used for tram tracks in Melbourne - rail which is held together by the concrete and gauge kept by metal rods, rail on sleepers which is then encased in concrete for really heavy duty track, and sleepers on ballast which was common up until the 1940s but is only presently found on sections where the tram track is totally separated from road traffic or on converted railway lines.

The best ride quality is on sleepers and ballast (then sleepers and concrete), concrete has a tendency after a couple of decades to become uneven and it feels like it takes the track with it when that happens.

Maintenance also becomes an issue - with the majority of tracks being encased in concrete (even sections separated from road traffic), all maintenance vehicles are road based which can cause problems for the sections of tram track which aren't in concrete.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 09:30 AM   #30
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The best ride quality is on sleepers and ballast (then sleepers and concrete), concrete has a tendency after a couple of decades to become uneven and it feels like it takes the track with it when that happens.
I wonder if this has to do with freeze-thaw cycles, but you don't get much for winter in Melbourne, do you?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #31
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A long time since there's been a real frost in Melbourne: many decades. While I remember frozen ponds in my childhood, forget it today!
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Old February 1st, 2015, 04:55 PM   #32
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.. i think that TRAMWAY's system is a must have for every mid-sized city who wanna organize their urban transportation system.

African Cities with Tramways;

Algeria there are three Tramways in service for some years now, but still there are 17 more tramway systems under construction in all mid-sized cities over the country.

Also in Morroco there are two in service but there are two more planned to be constructed in big cities
Tunis have One tramway in service the oldest in the maghreb since the 80's

Algiers - ALGERIA







Constantine - ALGERIA








Oran - ALGERIA







Casablanca - MOROCCO





Rebat - MOROCCO







Tunis - TUNISIA





Cairo - Egypt

there are tramways but those are so Old







Thats all Tramway systems I think there is in Africa .. I sincerely hope that it will more generalized to all the country's
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Old February 1st, 2015, 10:10 PM   #33
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Tunis - TUNISIA

That has got to be the least sensible place to dry some laundry.
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Old February 2nd, 2015, 08:01 AM   #34
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Argentina has only two Tramways, one in Buenos Aires City and the other one in Mendoza City. Both use girder rails in the parts where the trams move in the streets or close to traffic and flanged rails when they are separated from traffic.
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