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Old June 15th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #20621
Verso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
After WWII Italians were expelled from Yugoslavia and Germans from Poland, Czechoslovakia and Kaliningrad oblast. Probably most of those folks forced to leave their hometowns had nothing to do with the nazi-fascism.
I don't entirely agree here. I bet most Italians and Germans living in those places supported Nazi-fascism in WWII. But ok, opinions don't kill.
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Old June 15th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #20622
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This Eastern-German parts that later become Poland, Czechia or Russia had the highest percent voting for Hitler but perhaps they changed their opinion
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Old June 15th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #20623
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^ When did they change their opinion?
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Old June 15th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #20624
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I don't entirely agree here. I bet most Italians and Germans living in those places supported Nazi-fascism in WWII. But ok, opinions don't kill.
Normal people just wanted to live in peace in their homelands and have enough to eat. They were born Italian\German like those born in Rome or Berlin. Fanatics that wanted to conquere the entire continent weren't the majority of the population. Plus, in those years, ignorance and illiteracy among common people was strong, regime censorship even stronger. So many people believed in those populistic and criminal leaders, knowing little or no about the horrors of the totalitarism.
Istria and Dalmazia were part of the Venetian republic and later of the Austrian-Hungarian empire (that respected the different nationalities). Western Poland was part of Prussia, then German Empire, then Weimar Republic. So those areas had a natural Italian\German background for centuries, unlikely indipendent countries that were briefly occupied by Axis forces during WWII. They're comparable to Alto Adige, that we took away from Austrians after we won WWI.
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^ When did they change their opinion?
Most people that voted Hitler in 1933 would never have vote it if they knew the long list of horrific events that followed the proclamation of the racial laws in 1935. Same for many people that believed in fascism or communism at their birth.
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Old June 15th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #20625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Normal people just wanted to live in peace in their homelands and have enough to eat. They were born Italian\German like those born in Rome or Berlin. Fanatics that wanted to conquere the entire continent weren't the majority of the population. Plus, in those years, ignorance and illiteracy among common people was strong, regime censorship even stronger. So many people believed in those populistic and criminal leaders, knowing little or no about the horrors of the totalitarism.
Istria and Dalmazia were part of the Venetian republic and later of the Austrian-Hungarian empire (that respected the different nationalities). Western Poland was part of Prussia, then German Empire, then Weimar Republic. So those areas had a natural Italian\German background for centuries, unlikely indipendent countries that were briefly occupied by Axis forces during WWII. They're comparable to Alto Adige, that we took away from Austrians after we won WWI.

Most people that voted Hitler in 1933 would never have vote it if they knew the long list of horrific events that followed the proclamation of the racial laws in 1935. Same for many people that believed in fascism or communism at their birth.
You are not right. At least if we count the Germans in the Czechoslovakia. They were pretty 90 % pro Nazi in 1938 and earlier already, they were motivated by racial hate and they knew quite well the intentions that Hitler has. They witnessed the Jews fleeing Germany to find shelter in Czechoslovakia, they were supporting the program of expulsions of the Czechs from the lands that Germany took in 1938. There were certainly some Czech Germans that were opposing it, but that was just small fraction, that was largely prosecuted by the Nazis later on.
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Old June 15th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #20626
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Congrats to Bulgarians and Romanians for the second bridge over the Danube! (59 years after the first one ) Will one rail be enough?
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Old June 15th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #20627
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Welcome all

Slovenian President Borut Pahor welcomes EuroBasket 2013 to Slovenia






Link (groups): http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/cid...ason_2013.html
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Old June 16th, 2013, 12:37 AM   #20628
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Welcome all
Thanks, I'll come.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #20629
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

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Old June 16th, 2013, 01:34 AM   #20630
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Thanks, I'll come.
Great news!
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Old June 16th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #20631
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1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
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Old June 16th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #20632
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Maybe there was a kart in the CLK boot
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 12:09 AM   #20633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Most people that voted Hitler in 1933 would never have vote it if they knew the long list of horrific events that followed the proclamation of the racial laws in 1935. Same for many people that believed in fascism or communism at their birth.
Yes, because Hitler and the NSDAP were peace-loving hippies until 1933 and then everything suddenly changed. He also never wrote a book professing many of the beliefs that would later form the core of the Nazi party ideology, nor did his party ever organize any militaristic rallies shouting extremely racist and xenophobic slogans.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:41 AM   #20634
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Quote:
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The phrase in Italian is a pun made on the text of a well-known Italian song by Angelo Branduardi.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:56 AM   #20635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lum Lumi View Post
Yes, because Hitler and the NSDAP were peace-loving hippies until 1933 and then everything suddenly changed. He also never wrote a book professing many of the beliefs that would later form the core of the Nazi party ideology, nor did his party ever organize any militaristic rallies shouting extremely racist and xenophobic slogans.
Of course they knew the racist and militaristic ideology but nobody would expect a 6-years-long world war causing 50+ millions of deaths, destroying and impoverishing most of the continent.
Totalitarian regimes always born in countries that never had a democratic tradition (such the Middle-Age-like Tsarist Russia) or that are in a bad state of political instability and high levels of poverty and illiteracy (such Germany and Italy after WWI). For this reason we never had such regimes in France, UK, USA or Scandinavian countries. Probably also in those countries there were groups supporting nazi or commies ideologies but their stable governments with a long liberal tradition didn't give room to them. For example in 1940 the British parliament outlawed the "British Union of Fascist", while in Italy in 1922 the King Victor Emmanuel III allowed Mussolini to set up its fascist regime after the "March on Rome", instead of fight against him.
Today most dictatorial regimes are found in countries that were badly impoverished after decades of European colonization and etnic conflicts or where religious fondamentalism is very strong. It's very unlikely that a stable, developed country will turn into a dictatorship.

Last edited by italystf; June 17th, 2013 at 11:14 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 11:08 AM   #20636
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Italysf, just 1 thing that's driving me crazy. It's "OF COURSE", not "OFF COURSE".

;D ;D
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Old June 17th, 2013, 11:13 AM   #20637
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Just a typo, edited. BTW, you wrote Italysf instead of Italystf
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Old June 17th, 2013, 11:44 AM   #20638
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Quote:
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Just a typo, edited. BTW, you wrote Italysf instead of Italystf
I have troubles reading too many consonants in a row
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Old June 17th, 2013, 01:29 PM   #20639
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I have troubles reading too many consonants in a row
Like "Trst"?
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Old June 17th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #20640
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Now that is serious trolling
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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