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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #20941
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Friends of my mother escaped to west through some small YU/AT border crossing in 1986. They had such a big luck - there were no barriers on the road so they didn't stop at YU-customs, just on Austrian side where they asked for asylum.

They had only a permission to travel to Yugoslavia from Czechoslovak police authorities.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #20942
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http://wikitravel.org/en/Driving_in_China
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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #20943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
At that time army guarded the borders, unless you think on border police at border crossings. There was no reason to prevent foreign citizen to leave Yugoslavia, unless he/she is violating border rules (crossing the border without passport or out of crossing).
You mean that a Warsaw pact citizen, legally entered in Yugoslavia, could have shown his passport at the Italian or Austrian border and just let pass through? I don't think it was so easy, otherwise the entire iron curtain system would have been useless.
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http://wikitravel.org/en/Driving_in_China
Probably Honk Kong and Macau citizens are allowed to drive in China more easily than other foreigners, since China claim those territories as part of it. I read that Honk Kong - Shenzen is one of the busiest border crossing in the world, so I suppose it's quite accessible to locals.

Last edited by italystf; July 4th, 2013 at 03:29 PM.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:31 PM   #20944
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
You mean that a Warsaw pact citizen, legally entered in Yugoslavia, could have shown his passport at the Italian or Austrian border and just let pass through? I don't think it was so easy, otherwise the entire iron curtain system would have been useless.
That is the point. Yugoslavia was out of iron curtain system, or I may rather say - It has its own system.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:32 PM   #20945
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I seem to remember lots of East Germans crossing the border from Hungary to Austria around the mid to late 80's. There may have been other Eastern Europeans too of course.

I also remember driving through Hungary an the way to, and from, Romania that Hungary seemed to be a lot more relaxed and more 'westernised' than Romania at that particular time; especially Budapest. Adverts for western products and western graffiti seemed to be everywhere.

We weren't supposed to stop in Hungary either as we were classed as transit tourists but no-one took a blind bit of notice when we did once on the way to Romania and twice on the way back.

Contrast that with Romania where we were chaperoned by some security bloke and could only stop at designated places ie the hotel, restaurant and football ground. We couldn't leave any of those places without an escort and only go to/from the coach.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #20946
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I asked this question few weeks ago, and I ask again: do you guys know what happened to forum user seem? He dissappeared few months ago without saying anything.
GordonBennett perhaps? Keep seeing him in similar DLM threads seem used to frequent.

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Old July 4th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #20947
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Nah, that's Suleiman.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 06:39 PM   #20948
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Quote:
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Or he just changed his nickname to volodaaaa? Both are from Bratislava, SK.
Wasn´t Seem from Žilina or Martin?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #20949
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
You mean that a Warsaw pact citizen, legally entered in Yugoslavia, could have shown his passport at the Italian or Austrian border and just let pass through? I don't think it was so easy, otherwise the entire iron curtain system would have been useless.
How it was in Czechoslovakia.

There was a passport. In that passport you could get a permit to enter certain countries, with this permit the border police would allow you in or out of the country (communist countries).

Thus a Czechoslovak could have a permit for entering Hungary, Yugoslavia, Poland etc... but no permit to enter e.g. Austria or Italy. If such a person would be checked at the Yugoslavia Austria or Yug. Italy borders, the border police would not let him leave Yugoslavia.

The border police in Yugoslavia was bit more relaxed, thus it was sometimes possible to fool them. The border was generally much less secured, thus it was also possible to cross it outside the border crossing. However, if captured by the Yugoslav authorities, there would be consequences for illegal border crossing, etc. I might be that the Yugoslav authorities might or might not inform the Czechoslovak authorities.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #20950
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I know the story of an Italian hiker that was jailed for a week in Koper for not having looked carefully at border stones in the Carso near Muggia. It was in 1979.

EDIT: mods, please move this discussion on the border crossing thread
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #20951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
How it was in Czechoslovakia.

There was a passport. In that passport you could get a permit to enter certain countries, with this permit the border police would allow you in or out of the country (communist countries).

Thus a Czechoslovak could have a permit for entering Hungary, Yugoslavia, Poland etc... but no permit to enter e.g. Austria or Italy. If such a person would be checked at the Yugoslavia Austria or Yug. Italy borders, the border police would not let him leave Yugoslavia.

The border police in Yugoslavia was bit more relaxed, thus it was sometimes possible to fool them. The border was generally much less secured, thus it was also possible to cross it outside the border crossing. However, if captured by the Yugoslav authorities, there would be consequences for illegal border crossing, etc. I might be that the Yugoslav authorities might or might not inform the Czechoslovak authorities).
And it is need to be mentioned, that if was someone caught escaping, his/her life changed to hell. Unsuccesful escaper was punished and attended to worst occupation. His or her descendants and family were punished as well (e.g. they were not accepted to universities and unfortunately were predestined to get no permision to travel outside the country.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:23 PM   #20952
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So basically life behind the iron curtain was a hell hole.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #20953
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Could people from Yugoslavia cross into Albania?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #20954
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Could people from Yugoslavia cross into Albania?
You'll have to open a few doors and tell us where you're from. We know you live in the Netherlands, you've lived in Italy and speak Portuguese. So what nationality are you?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #20955
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So basically life behind the iron curtain was a hell hole.
Sure, that was one of the worst parts of communism if not the worst: imprisoning their own populations under the excuse of "we give you education and housing, you can't leave".

At least around 4 of the 17 million people living in former DDR territory after WW2 managed to escape in the 1940s and 1950s. I still think Western powers should have done more to empty out communist countries outside USSR from their population, like playing hardball with critical exports they needed from the West with the Soviets unless they let non-Soviet communist countries allow free emigration. It wouldn't have worked before Stalin death, but could have worked in the 1970s, and I'm sure millions would leave Poland, Hungary etc. if given the opportunity.

I read that the DDR government was allowing some people they qualified as dissidents (often intellectuals) to emmigrate to FDR for a payment (made by West Germany) or around DM 20.000 per head. Other Eastern European countries, particularly Romania and Bulgaria, were taking big monies from Israel to let Jews from there to emmigrate.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #20956
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You'll have to open a few doors and tell us where you're from. We know you live in the Netherlands, you've lived in Italy and speak Portuguese. So what nationality are you?
Lol I speak 4 languages (I still don't consider that I speak Dutch fluently enough to count as a 5th) and I've lived in 4 countries.

My nationalities are Italian (father), Spanish (mother), Brazilian (mother)...
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #20957
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
ared few months ago without saying anything.

Or he just changed his nickname to volodaaaa? Both are from Bratislava, SK.
And he totally copied my signature
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #20958
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The best part is this: we often heard something like this "the iron curtain with guarding soldiers is built to defend us from poor imperialists who envy our communist paradise"
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #20959
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The best part is this: we often heard something like this "the iron curtain with guarding soldiers is built to defend us from poor imperialists who envy our communist paradise"
Well, before Stalin crimes became more known and Western Europe was still recovering, it is estimated that roughly 120.000 Western Europeans moved on their own volition to communist countries (as in immigrating in search of a better life). A sizable number of Italians actually moved to Yugoslavia (not necessarily those expelled during the ethnic cleansing, but communists that thought they should help the efforts there).
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #20960
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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
And he totally copied my signature
You need to drive your car to Portugal and add a lot of abbreviations to that signature
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