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Old December 20th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #23461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Happy winter solstice, everyone!

Fun fact few people know: winter solstice is the shortest day in the year, but not the day where sunrise comes the latest or/and sunset comes the earliest. In Rome, for istance, the day when sunrise happens the latest is January 1st, while the day when sunset happens the earliest is December 8th.
Why is that? I mean: is there some anomaly on the Earth revolution?
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Old December 20th, 2013, 05:51 PM   #23462
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I did warn you I could explain it on a good day.

It's a combination of (1) the fact that the Earth's orbit is not perfectly circular, so this time of year it takes a little less time for a complete rotation (or more precisely, it takes a little less than a complete rotation to get from the point where the Sun, from a particular point on the Earth's surface, is at a given apparent height, to the point about 24 hours later where it's at the same apparent height and (2) the fact that this time of year we're closer to the Sun and moving just a little faster because its gravity is a bit stronger. Put those two factors together and have them accumulate for a couple of months and we reach the point where "noon" - the mid-point of the day - is actually falling at 11:44 a.m. in mid-November. By late December, we're moving back in the other direction, so the whole day - sunrise and sunset - is getting later as measured against a constant clock.

Here's the book I read this in, which expands all that to a chapter: http://www.amazon.com/Marking-Time-I.../dp/0471298271
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #23463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Why is that? I mean: is there some anomaly on the Earth revolution?
No. The Earth orbiting the Sun on an elliptical path instead of a circular one implies that the speed of the Earth on the orbital varies across the year. (Keyword for further research: Kepler's second law.) Thus, the length of the solar day is not always exactly 24 hours. It would be impractical to follow the solar time. That is why the clocks show a mean time. The difference of these two times is called equation of time. It varies from about -14 minutes to +16.5 minutes during the year, and it is impacted by the obliquity of the Earth's axis, too.

The sunrise and sunset occur symmetrical to the solar noon. Because the equation of time changes rather quickly during December and January, the solar noon moves quickly, too.

The solar noon occurred in Rome at 12:04 a week ago, and at 12:08 today. After one week the time of the solar noon will be 12:11, and it will reach its maximum of 12:24 at February 1st. This is why the sunrise occurs later at the end of December even if the days are slightly longer.

For example, at January 1st, the solar noon occurs at 12:13, sunrise at 07:38 and sunset at 16:49. After one week, the sunrise still occurs at 07:38 but the sunset at 16:55. This is because the solar noon has moved a few minutes ahead, to 12:17. In the accuracy of one minute, the solar noon occurs in the halfway from sunrise to sunset.

No, this does not occur in Rome only, it occurs everywhere.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 09:08 PM   #23464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Happy winter solstice, everyone!

Fun fact few people know: winter solstice is the shortest day in the year, but not the day where sunrise comes the latest or/and sunset comes the earliest. In Rome, for istance, the day when sunrise happens the latest is January 1st, while the day when sunset happens the earliest is December 8th.
thank god it gets only better from now. although this year December was very sunny over here, with peak temperatures around 11° C, there were only few days with clouds or rain.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #23465
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Hey guys, I am the astronomer here! Well, I was.

Anyway, good explanations.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 09:35 PM   #23466
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^I like watching Venus in the early evening, it is so bright these days
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Old December 20th, 2013, 10:04 PM   #23467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Hey guys, I am the astronomer here! Well, I was.

Anyway, good explanations.
Don't you work on science field anymore?
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Old December 20th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #23468
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Quote:
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Don't you work on science field anymore?
Yes, but light-years away from astronomy.
Pun intended.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #23469
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Quote:
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Yes, but light-years away from astronomy.
Pun intended.
Are you still trying to define the Kelvin unit with more precision?
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Old December 21st, 2013, 10:16 AM   #23470
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Old December 21st, 2013, 11:56 AM   #23471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Yes, but light-years away from astronomy.
Pun intended.
At least your city of residence is related to astronomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino_Scale
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Old December 21st, 2013, 06:31 PM   #23472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are you still trying to define the Kelvin unit with more precision?
It's not something that can be done in 2 months. It's a three-year-long pan-european project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
At least your city of residence is related to astronomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino_Scale
Here in Turin they also have a lead role in data acquisition for GAIA, the astrometric satellite that went into orbit (or better, beyond orbit, in L2 Lagrangian point) two days ago.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 08:12 PM   #23473
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Яш is Bulgarian name for Romanian city Iaşi
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Old December 21st, 2013, 08:17 PM   #23474
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It's not something that can be done in 2 months. It's a three-year-long pan-european project.
....
Snark reaction: Government-funded? What happened to austerity?
More serious reaction: What are the benefits of this exercise?
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Old December 21st, 2013, 08:18 PM   #23475
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Яш is Bulgarian name for Romanian city Iaşi
Well, I guess it would be!
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Old December 21st, 2013, 09:49 PM   #23476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Snark reaction: Government-funded? What happened to austerity?
More serious reaction: What are the benefits of this exercise?
Let's put it this way: a milliKelvin of accuracy can make the difference between global warming and global cooling. That is something that moves billions of dollars, even during austerity.

Edit: may i add that inrim is one of the few government funded organization with an active financial balance. We do stuff for private companies, like calibrating their instruments, and get paid for that.

Last edited by g.spinoza; December 21st, 2013 at 10:32 PM.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 10:52 PM   #23477
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Best possible choice for this evening. King of wines, wine of kings.

image hosted on flickr
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 12:50 AM   #23478
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Greatings from Prague. Wonderful place!
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 12:15 PM   #23479
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The finals of women's handball world championship will be held tonight, 6PM CET in Belgrade. The hosts play against Brazil for the title. None of the participants has ever been world champion (Yugoslavia was, 1973), they hadn't even got a medal before. Actually for the independent Serbia it is the first participation in a WCh ever.
The hall (Kombank Arena) is sold out, with 19,500 spectators it will be the most-visited women's handball game ever.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 02:18 PM   #23480
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International Handball Federation recognizes Serbia as an inheritor of Yugoslavia. So, Serbia has 7 medals so far.
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