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Old March 15th, 2014, 03:09 PM   #24501
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
As promised, today's after-work view:





I've seen quite a lot of beautiful views in the mountains but sometimes I'm still astonished, like today.
Where is this?
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Old March 15th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #24502
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Politics-themed weekend:
First round of presidential elections in Slovakia today (de facto referendum over whether we will continue being parliament democracy or switch to a presidential democracy ) and
referendum over Crimea tomorrow.

Don't know what to worry about more...
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Old March 15th, 2014, 09:30 PM   #24503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Politics-themed weekend:
First round of presidential elections in Slovakia today (de facto referendum over whether we will continue being parliament democracy or switch to a presidential democracy ) and
referendum over Crimea tomorrow.

Don't know what to worry about more...
IMO probably the first will have more direct but small consequences on your life - since you are still an EU and NATO member it can only cause a little bit of trouble. I mean what's the worst thing that can happen to you if Slovakia becomes a presidential democracy?

The latter referendum is a bit distant for the both of us and it can have very radical effects on the lives of the people who live there. But if we look at it a bit more closely: Some very radical things are already happening there and this referendum is just a small part of the big picture.
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Last edited by nbcee; March 15th, 2014 at 10:04 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2014, 10:02 PM   #24504
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Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
IMO probably the first will have more direct but small consequences on your life - since you are still an EU and NATO member it can only cause a little bit of trouble. I mean what's the worst thing that can happen to you if Slovakia becomes a presidential democracy?

The latter referendum is a bit distant for the both of us but it can have very radical effects on the lives of the people who live there. But if we look at it a bit more closely: Some very radical things are already happening there and this referendum is just a small part of the big picture.
The one in Crimea isn't actually a real referendum, since its result is obvious. It's more a formal act to legitimate the Russian invasion of Crimea, like Germans did in Austria in 1938 (Anschluss), or like all "elections" in dictatorial countries, from Fascist Italy to Eastern Bloc People's Republics, where the only legal party always won with percentages like 98 or 99%.
However I don't care too much about the future of Crimea, it's not our business. I only hope they will live in peace. Even if Putin regime is illeberal and corrupt, Svoboda aren't peacifists hippies either.
Curiously, while Svoboda is pro-EU and is supported by EU, similar conservative and nationalist movements in EU countries are strongly anti-europeits (most notably the French Front National).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 15th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #24505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
IMO probably the first will have more direct but small consequences on your life - since you are still an EU and NATO member it can only cause a little bit of trouble. I mean what's the worst thing that can happen to you if Slovakia becomes a presidential democracy?
I did not mean it seriously, but our (super)PM (the way he rule is similar to Orban) is currently running for presidency. He has (by means of his governing party) everything under control in my country and the presidential seat is the only thing he lack. His support is unfortunately great.

Quote:
The latter referendum is a bit distant for the both of us and it can have very radical effects on the lives of the people who live there. But if we look at it a bit more closely: Some very radical things are already happening there and this referendum is just a small part of the big picture.
The latter referendum might be a initiator of something very unpleasant. I've noticed, both sides of that conflict, either NATO and EU or Russia have chosen a waiting strategy so far. But it is obvious, that one side will not be satisfied after tomorrow and we would better pray for a cold war if there will be one. Anyway, I hope for peace and if necessary, only for diplomatic disputes.
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Old March 15th, 2014, 10:43 PM   #24506
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Quote:
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It's more a formal act to legitimate the Russian invasion of Crimea, like Germans did in Austria in 1938 (Anschluss)
Correct. However a referendum in Crimea, let's say 6 months ago, or a referendum in Austria for example in September 1937 would have had very similar results. I guess approximately 80% of the Crimean population want the peninsula to join Russia, and the only reason they have not done it earlier was the presence of the Ukrainian army and police.
OK, tomorrow it will be probably over 95% but in my solid opinion the "real" 80% should be enough as well to let Crimea join Russia.
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Old March 15th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #24507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I did not mean it seriously, but our (super)PM (the way he rule is similar to Orban) is currently running for presidency. He has (by means of his governing party) everything under control in my country and the presidential seat is the only thing he lack. His support is unfortunately great.
I think presidential system, run properly, is probably better, it makes the government useless and unable to do things, which is just perfect (example USA, some small problems like recurring "debt ceiling", but never actual problems). Isolating the "leader" as president, would allow the parliament to maybe challenge him instead of always submitting, such that nobody would have enough power to ruin the country.

Crimea is concerning to me, asking people "do you want Rossiya" while pointing the gun at them seems totally beyond acceptable, but so it shall be and we will not do anything. For South Ossetia, I could not find it on a map (how far from Atlanta?), so didn't care, Crimea, I know where it is, but it's also far away - but not far enough! What next?
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Old March 16th, 2014, 12:21 AM   #24508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Correct. However a referendum in Crimea, let's say 6 months ago, or a referendum in Austria for example in September 1937 would have had very similar results. I guess approximately 80% of the Crimean population want the peninsula to join Russia, and the only reason they have not done it earlier was the presence of the Ukrainian army and police.
OK, tomorrow it will be probably over 95% but in my solid opinion the "real" 80% should be enough as well to let Crimea join Russia.
In 1938, at the "Anschluss referendum" the vote wasn't secret, i.e. people didn't vote in boots but in front of German officers. Those who voted against were subjected to prosecutions or deportation. So that 99,73% isn't surprising. If they have voted in September 1937, with secrecy and without German pressure, probably far more than 0,27% of Austrians would have chosen freedom over Nazi slavery.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 16th, 2014, 12:29 AM   #24509
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And according to international laws, an independence referendum isn't valid if the other part (in that case Ukraine) doesn't agree. In the previous cases of Czechoslovakia, Serbia-Montenegro and Sudan, both parts agreeded the division.
After the independence, Crimea will likely be recognized only by Russia and an handful of small exotic countries, like Abkhazia and South Ossetia today. The iternational community and the UN will never. Maps will continue to include it in Ukraine, even if the Ukrainian government has no influence on it.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 16th, 2014, 12:32 AM   #24510
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Your example includes territories which became (de-facto) independent countries. Crimea appears to want to join the Russian Federation as a federal subject.
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Old March 16th, 2014, 12:40 AM   #24511
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Wow.

Meanwhile in the UAE


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Old March 16th, 2014, 12:44 AM   #24512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Your example includes territories which became (de-facto) independent countries. Crimea appears to want to join the Russian Federation as a federal subject.
It's right, but EU and USA wouldn't recognize the annexation either and will consider it "illegal occupation" like Israeli settlements or Moroccan Sahara. Moreover, Crimea is accessible by road and rail only from Ukraine and, since a such crisis will likely cause the closure of the UA-RUS border (see Armenia and Azerbaijan, over Nagorno Karabakh), the only links to the rest of Russia will be ferries and planes.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 16th, 2014, 03:13 AM   #24513
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What do you think of the... nuclear factor? Ukraine at independence had a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons, 3rd most in world, but agreed to destroy them in exchange for protection of its integrity (by US and Russia). Libya too had agreed to give up "the bomb" and some years later Gaddafi got stabbed in the ******* and killed. Would these precedents make disarming rogue states (I am thinking Iran and Nord Korea in particular) or preventing acquisition of nuclear weapons essentially impossible?
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Old March 16th, 2014, 08:19 AM   #24514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In 1938, at the "Anschluss referendum" the vote wasn't secret, i.e. people didn't vote in boots but in front of German officers. Those who voted against were subjected to prosecutions or deportation. So that 99,73% isn't surprising. If they have voted in September 1937, with secrecy and without German pressure, probably far more than 0,27% of Austrians would have chosen freedom over Nazi slavery.
Yes. However, I think in a free referendum it would have been approx. 70% for the union and only 30% against it (before 1933 even more for the union).
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Old March 16th, 2014, 08:23 AM   #24515
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
And according to international laws, an independence referendum isn't valid if the other part (in that case Ukraine) doesn't agree. In the previous cases of Czechoslovakia, Serbia-Montenegro and Sudan, both parts agreeded the division.
After the independence, Crimea will likely be recognized only by Russia and an handful of small exotic countries, like Abkhazia and South Ossetia today. The iternational community and the UN will never. Maps will continue to include it in Ukraine, even if the Ukrainian government has no influence on it.
Oh, yeah. (North-)Sudan has "agreed" the division because they were forced to agree. But before that they fighted (literally) against the southern. And Serbia has never accepted the division of Kosovo, and even the division of Montenegro have they only accepted because USA and Germany forced them to accept it.
It is only the question of power. Is is not about principles, not about justice, it's purely about power.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 12:24 AM   #24516
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Where is this?
Begunjščica, 2060 m
https://maps.google.com/?ll=46.4236,...55747&t=p&z=15
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Old March 17th, 2014, 07:13 PM   #24517
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My 1987 Rand McNally Road Atlas shows some factoids about Canada:


Things can change! The current Canadian population is 35.1 million and the largest city is now Toronto due to the 1998 amalgamation.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 11:12 PM   #24518
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Google Street View now covers the Colorado River. Here a view from underneath the Navajo Bridges on US-91.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 11:30 PM   #24519
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Google Street View now covers the Colorado River. Here a view from underneath the Navajo Bridges on US-89A.
FTFY. US-91 never crossed Colorado river.
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Old March 18th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #24520
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Street View in Bosnia:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Met...d0e2f33a9f151c
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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