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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:03 AM   #24661
g.spinoza
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There are similar problems even within the indo-european language group. Latin languages can have masculine and feminine of "this" and "that" (eg. Italian "questo/questo" and "quello/quella") and of "a" and "the" ("uno/una", "il/la") that can enter same kind of untranslatable jokes.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:06 AM   #24662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
There are similar problems even within the indo-european language group. Latin languages can have masculine and feminine of "this" and "that" (eg. Italian "questo/questo" and "quello/quella") and of "a" and "the" ("uno/una", "il/la") that can enter same kind of untranslatable jokes.
Indeed. That doesn't happen in Greek though. It remains complicated enough.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:20 AM   #24663
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Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Does that apply to Finnish as well? What about IT? He-she-it? Are they all one grammatical gender?
No genders. Both 'she' and 'he' translates to 'hän'. 'It' translates to 'se'.

Quote:
What about verbs? Do they have many different forms or are they like in English (very few basic forms like do, does, did, doing).
Like Hungarian, Finnish is based on conjugation of both nouns and verbs. Each verb has thousands of conjugated forms. Conjugated verbs have noun-like forms and they can be used to form nouns. The distinction between a conjucated verb and a noun is not crystal clear.

Because of the conjugation, one single word can express many things. Like the verb 'juoksentelisin' translates about to 'I would run a little here and there without any specific reason'.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #24664
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
A vast majority of European languages (and lots of non-European languages, too) belong to Indo-European group. They have not only a common basic vocabulary, but all have the same basic grammar structures (with lots of variations, though).
Finno-Ugric languages have a very different grammar structure and therefore are very difficult to learn for native Indo-European speakers (notice however that we had the same difficulties by learning the first Indo-European language!).
This differences make difficulties e.g. by film dubbing. In Hungarian there are no grammatic genders, i.e. we have the same word for "he" and "she" => "ő". In our language "ő" can be either a man or a woman and it is not possible to make a difference. You may know the scene of stoning in Monthy Python's Life of Brian. The Jewish official asks: "Who threw that stone?". There are many women there, although it is forbidden. And many of them answer: "She!", and a second later: "Oh, no, he, he!" because they realize a woman couldn't be there at all. It is fully impossible to translate it to Hungarian, because we have no different words for "she" and "he". In Hungarian dubbing it's at first "Az a nő" and then "Az a férfi" which literally means "that woman" and "that man". It is absolutely unnatural to speak so but it's the only way to translate the scene so that the translation has the same sense as the original.

Unlike German, I indeed welcome the lack of gender in Hungarian language. It makes the grammar much easier. Hungarian grammar does not seem difficult to me, the only problem is (as I've already mentioned) the word order and the lack (or rather intended omission) of the verb "to be".

"Pozsony a város Szlovákiaban"
-
Literal translation
"Bratislava (is) the city Slovakia-in"

Why couldn't I use
"Pozsony a váaros Szlovákiaban van"?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #24665
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Like Hungarian, Finnish is based on conjugation of both nouns and verbs. Each verb has thousands of conjugated forms. Conjugated verbs have noun-like forms and they can be used to form nouns. The distinction between a conjucated verb and a noun is not crystal clear.

Thousands? How is that possible? How can anyone remember all forms of each verb?

Are you saying that a noun and a verb could be identical?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:10 PM   #24666
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Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
What about IT? He-she-it? Are they all one grammatical gender?
In Hungarian:
All human beings, animals, and human-like fictional characters => ő
Vegetables, objects, ideas (e.g. "love") => az
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:14 PM   #24667
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Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Thousands? How is that possible? How can anyone remember all forms of each verb?
The basic idea is for verbs: no (or very few) auxiliary verbs, but everything in conjugation.
Example:
do = csinál
we do = csinálunk
I do = csinálok
we may do = csinálhatunk
I may do = csinálhatok
etc.

The similar for nouns:
house = ház
our house = házunk
in our house = házunkban
our houses = házaink
in our houses = házainkban
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:22 PM   #24668
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What's the longest word you can write in Hungarian?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:24 PM   #24669
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And I just love it how sometimes phrasal verbs can change the whole meaning of the verbs theys are conjugated with.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:28 PM   #24670
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Leaving languages aside, today at my workplace you get your browsing statistic. According to the declarations of consent you have to agree to, you are only allowed to use the Internet connection for private stuff, 5 hours in a month and starting now, only 500 MB.

Looking at my stats, except one month, in the last year, I exceeded this 500 MB limit by far...
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:29 PM   #24671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
The basic idea is for verbs: no (or very few) auxiliary verbs, but everything in conjugation.
Example:
do = csinál
we do = csinálunk
I do = csinálok
we may do = csinálhatunk
I may do = csinálhatok
etc.

The similar for nouns:
house = ház
our house = házunk
in our house = házunkban
our houses = házaink
in our houses = házainkban
So that you don't have to use pronouns.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:30 PM   #24672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
Leaving languages aside, today at my workplace you get your browsing statistic. According to the declarations of consent you have to agree to, you are only allowed to use the Internet connection for private stuff, 5 hours in a month and starting now, only 500 MB.

Looking at my stats, except one month, in the last year, I exceeded this 500 MB limit by far...
Those pictures of motorways
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:31 PM   #24673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
What's the longest word you can write in Hungarian?
I have found this:

eltöredezettségmentesítőtleníttethetetlenségtelenítőtlenkedhetnétek
(~you could get rid of your ability of getting rid of your lack of unfragmentationability - or something like that. I got lost in the middle )

But don't worry our words are usually not this long.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:33 PM   #24674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
What's the longest word you can write in Hungarian?
It's "megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért". However I don't think anyone has used this word any time in a normal speech :-) It's translation could be something like "for your behaviors as being not able to be profanized", where "you" is plural form ("voi" in Italian, not "tu").
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:35 PM   #24675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
I have found this:

eltöredezettségmentesítőtleníttethetetlenségtelenítőtlenkedhetnétek
(~you could get rid of your ability of getting rid of your lack of unfragmentationability - or something like that. I got lost in the middle )

But don't worry our words are usually not this long.


I also like the name of the city Mosonmagyaróvár. Especially the German translation which is two rows long
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:40 PM   #24676
g.spinoza
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I like Hungarian girls better than their language
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:42 PM   #24677
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Body language is more important anyway!!!
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #24678
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We should not paste any more youtube videos with girls, because cinxxx will be fired
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:55 PM   #24679
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That's the thing. Youtube, Picasa, Flickr, Facebook, Imgur, a lot of stuff is blocked here... there still seem to be enough pictures, or maybe Google Maps uses much bandwith, dunno
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #24680
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
There are similar problems even within the indo-european language group. Latin languages can have masculine and feminine of "this" and "that" (eg. Italian "questo/questo" and "quello/quella") and of "a" and "the" ("uno/una", "il/la") that can enter same kind of untranslatable jokes.
To make it more complicate, also some verbs are declinated according to the gender:
He's gone. = Lui č andato.
She's gone. = Lei č andata.
They (men) are gone. = Loro sono andati.
They (women) are gone. = Loro sono andate.
Where have you (man) been? = Dove sei stato?
Where have you (woman) been? = Dove sei stata?
Where have you (men) been? = Dove siete stati?
Where have you (women) been? = Dove siete state?
No wonder that many foreigners make mistakes while speaking our language.
Even better is explaning them that the masculine singular article is "il" but is "lo" for words starting in s* (with * being a consonant), z or ps and l' for words starting with a wovel.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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