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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:29 PM   #24681
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Thousands? How is that possible? How can anyone remember all forms of each verb?
With all syntactically valid combinations, the number of valid conjugated forms may approach about infinity. The idea is not to remember all the forms but take the stem of the verb and begin conjugating.

Of course, only a fraction of the theoretical number of combinations are in active use.

Quote:
Are you saying that a noun and a verb could be identical?
Not exactly. The verbs have participle conjugations producing adjective-like words, and infinity conjugations producing noun-like ones. These can be further conjugated exactly like 'real' adjectives and nouns.

To add some complexity, a verb can be derived from a noun, and further conjugated back to a noun-like word. For example 'auto' ('a car') > 'autoilla' ('to drive a car') > 'autoileva' ('a person driving a car') > 'autoilevaton' ('a person not driving a car') > 'autoilevattomatta' ('without a person not driving a car'), etc.

There are internet sites to conjugate Finnish verbs, giving a very rough overview about the conjugation. For example, the URL http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/Finnish/juoda.html shows the basic conjugation of the verb 'juoda', 'to drink'. It makes no attempt to conjugate the infinitive ja participle forms.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #24682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
To add some complexity, a verb can be derived from a noun, and further conjugated back to a noun-like word. For example 'auto' ('a car') > 'autoilla' ('to drive a car') > 'autoileva' ('a person driving a car') > 'autoilevaton' ('a person not driving a car') > 'autoilevattomatta' ('without a person not driving a car'), etc.
So, it's a bit like German, where long composed words are created to express complex phrases (that would require 3-4 words in English, Italian, French,...).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #24683
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
So, it's a bit like German, where long composed words are created to express complex phrases (that would require 3-4 words in English, Italian, French,...).
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:46 PM   #24684
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So, it's a bit like German, where long composed words are created to express complex phrases (that would require 3-4 words in English, Italian, French,...).
Something like that but perhaps even more rich. What is different, Finnish does not have many prepositions and postpositions (and no articles and genders), but builds on conjugation.

The words and expressions are longer than in English: A Harry Potter novel having 500 pages in English may be 700 pages translated in Finnish using an equivalent font and page size.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 02:25 PM   #24685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
To add some complexity, a verb can be derived from a noun, and further conjugated back to a noun-like word. For example 'auto' ('a car') > 'autoilla' ('to drive a car') > 'autoileva' ('a person driving a car') > 'autoilevaton' ('a person not driving a car') > 'autoilevattomatta' ('without a person not driving a car'), etc.
I never knew that Finnish grammar is so complicated
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Old April 15th, 2014, 06:51 PM   #24686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
To make it more complicate, also some verbs are declinated according to the gender:
He's gone. = Lui è andato.
She's gone. = Lei è andata.
They (men) are gone. = Loro sono andati.
They (women) are gone. = Loro sono andate.
Where have you (man) been? = Dove sei stato?
Where have you (woman) been? = Dove sei stata?
Where have you (men) been? = Dove siete stati?
Where have you (women) been? = Dove siete state?
No wonder that many foreigners make mistakes while speaking our language.
Even better is explaning them that the masculine singular article is "il" but is "lo" for words starting in s* (with * being a consonant), z or ps and l' for words starting with a wovel.
essere -> adjust gender. avere -> don't adjust gender.
of course, with some exeptions (l'ho vista)
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Old April 15th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #24687
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I never knew that Finnish grammar is so complicated
Aren't Finnish and Estonian quite close each other?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:28 PM   #24688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
To make it more complicate, also some verbs are declinated according to the gender:
He's gone. = Lui è andato.
She's gone. = Lei è andata.
They (men) are gone. = Loro sono andati.
They (women) are gone. = Loro sono andate.
Where have you (man) been? = Dove sei stato?
Where have you (woman) been? = Dove sei stata?
Where have you (men) been? = Dove siete stati?
Where have you (women) been? = Dove siete state?
No wonder that many foreigners make mistakes while speaking our language.
Even better is explaning them that the masculine singular article is "il" but is "lo" for words starting in s* (with * being a consonant), z or ps and l' for words starting with a wovel.
In Spanish it only happens with some participles. It's worse the many, many verb tenses we have.

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To bad he didn't speak with you when you were still a child. Children learn very fast, and every language brings only benefits.
But it's still not to late, you should ask him to
I think all my knowledge of Catalan is thanks to the exposure I had as a kid even if I had no relatives in Catalonia, since we used to get the Catalan TV as far as where I live, and the trips to the beach. I haven't practiced for a while now due to those independentists suckers.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #24689
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I think all my knowledge of Catalan is thanks to the exposure I had as a kid even if I had no relatives in Catalonia, since we used to get the Catalan TV as far as where I live, and the trips to the beach. I haven't practiced for a while now due to those independentists suckers.
I never speak Valencian/Catalan or go to Narnia Catalunya for the same reason

They are only spanish when they receive money, when not there are independentists. Peseteros. Suckers.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 08:43 AM   #24690
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In Spanish it only happens with some participles. It's worse the many, many verb tenses we have.
How many tenses have you got?
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Old April 16th, 2014, 10:40 AM   #24691
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I never knew that Finnish grammar is so complicated
Quite many people learning Finnish say that the grammar is nearly impossible, but some of those say it is complicated but logical.

For native speakers of Indo-European languages, it is hard to parse the conjugated words. For example, the indicator whether the word is singular or plural is often hidden in the middle of the word, and the indicator varies by the case.

'Mittari näyttää punaista' (singular), 'Mittarit näyttävät punaista' (plural) ('The meter(s) show red')

'Autossa on yksi mittari', 'Autossa on kaksi mittaria' ('There is one meter/are two meters in the car')

'Mittarissa on vikaa', 'Mittareissa on vikaa' ('The meter(s) fail')

'Mittariin ei voi luottaa', 'Mittareihin ei voi luottaa' ('The meter(s) cannot be trusted')
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #24692
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Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
How many tenses have you got?
Nine of them, all except imperative with six declinations each (I, singular you, it, we, plural you, they). And without counting compound tenses, which practically doubles the number. Luckily we merged a couple tenses onto a single one in the past, but Portuguese still has that difference!
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Old April 16th, 2014, 01:52 PM   #24693
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Nine of them, all except imperative with six declinations each (I, singular you, it, we, plural you, they). And without counting compound tenses, which practically doubles the number. Luckily we merged a couple tenses onto a single one in the past, but Portuguese still has that difference!
omg. My language has only three: past, present and future
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Old April 16th, 2014, 06:30 PM   #24694
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3 tenses are not enough...

Modern Greek has 8 tenses. Ancient Greek had more (I think...).
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Old April 16th, 2014, 07:37 PM   #24695
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we have 7 tenses (conditionals and imperative excluded), of which we use only 3 regularly (present, perfect, first future), we use 1 in 80% wrong occasions (second future), 2 are considered archaic and are used only in books (or if you use it in your speech, people look at you weirdly - aorist and imperfect ), and 1 is used only in very formal, usually written forms (pluperfect).
actually, i think that all Slavic languages consider that 3 tenses are enough. (but we cannot imagine having less than 3 genders )
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:13 PM   #24696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
I have found this:

eltöredezettségmentesítőtleníttethetetlenségtelenítőtlenkedhetnétek
(~you could get rid of your ability of getting rid of your lack of unfragmentationability - or something like that. I got lost in the middle )

But don't worry our words are usually not this long.
I do not understand this, it would never be used in written/spoken language. It just shows the grammar (what the language can do)of the hungarian language, but WAAAY out of common conversation
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:30 PM   #24697
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We have dual form, which is used in everyday life except in SW Slovenia. And plural has two forms when counting things.
1 vozilo (vehicle)
2 vozili
3 (or 4) vozila
5 (or more) vozil
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:40 PM   #24698
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Originally Posted by SeanT View Post
I do not understand this, it would never be used in written/spoken language. It just shows the grammar (what the language can do)of the hungarian language, but WAAAY out of common conversation
Why do you say so? My lack of unfragmentability, or getting rid of the ability of getting rid of it, is all I talk about all day.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:50 PM   #24699
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For people who want to learn french, I've found this:

French tenses:

Indication present, imperfect, simple past, simple future, more-than-perfect, previousperfect, previousfuture; 8
Subjunctive: present, past, imperfect, more-than-perfect; 4
Conditional: present, past the first form, past the second form; 3
Imperative: present, past, 2
That makes 17 times for personal modes. Among them, three are hardly ever used and 2 are used only in the written rather literary language. That leaves 12 commonly used.

You can add impersonal modes
Infinitive: present, past (eg have done)
Participle: present, past
For the gerund, there is a form (in + present participle).

Don't forget 6 declinations more "on (fr)", a sort of "we".
More illogical manners to write some of them.
Foreigners tell here that they need to see the written word to learn to write it.
Many words have the same pronunciation but have a completely different way to write.

We think in france that nordic languages are harder to learn with the hungarian. I add the welsh.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 12:26 AM   #24700
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I have a question regarding taking pictures from the car while driving.
Are there recommended settings, for example minimum shutter speed, so that objects from outside don't appear moving?
I guess in perfect light conditions you get a quick enough shutter speed with automatic settings, but what about low light, for example tunnels?
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