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Old May 1st, 2014, 07:40 PM   #24841
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Greetings from Bled, Slovenia


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Greetings from Jelgava, Latvia!
Greetings from Hallstatt, Austria
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Old May 1st, 2014, 07:45 PM   #24842
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We do need the USA inside Nato. Just like the USA still needs us in Nato as well. Threats from rogue countries like North Korea and Iran and now Russia as well are still imminent.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 07:45 PM   #24843
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Quote:
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Plenty of NATO members stayed out of Iraq.
All Russia's neighbors were in the coalition of the willing (except Norway) and only Poland was actually in NATO, while the Baltic states weren't yet. Ukraine was in the coalition as well.

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You all think, as you have forever (notwithstanding ample evidence to the contrary), that you're the only civilized part of the planet? Well, then you can prove it by growing a pair and taking care of yourselves.
No one claims Putin's Russia to be civilized. This isn't an internal NATO dispute (like e.g. Greece-Turkey), and when we talk about Europe, we usually don't have in mind Russia.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 07:49 PM   #24844
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All Russia's neighbors were in the coalition of the willing (except Norway) and only Poland was actually in NATO, while the Baltic states weren't yet. Ukraine was in the coalition as well.

No one claims Putin's Russia to be civilized. This isn't an internal NATO dispute (like e.g. Greece-Turkey), and when we talk about Europe, we usually don't have in mind Russia.
Don't we? Speak for yourself.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:01 PM   #24845
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Sorry for the tone in some of my posts. I feel (well, have felt recently) like I'm back in the 80s...the scary aspects of the 80s...and I don't like it.

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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:29 PM   #24846
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Cold war 80s?
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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:41 PM   #24847
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Indeed. I'm old enough (had a major, major birthday early in this "crisis," actually) to remember the sort of nagging fear that was always in the back of my mind. Going to college in Washington during the Reagan administration...well, at least we would have been the first to go. Heck, my mind keeps slipping and calling today's Russia "the Soviets."

EDIT: Okay, that was gloomy. Let's talk about something else.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:59 PM   #24848
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Heck, my mind keeps slipping and calling today's Russia "the Soviets."
I'm younger than you (I was in high school exactly in the years of George Bush Sr), but in Hungary they were never called as "Soviets". Yes, officially they were. But in everyday speech everybody called them "Russians".
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:04 PM   #24849
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Partially related question: do someone know why Cyrillic words (Russian, Ukrainian,...) are often translitterated in a different way?

For example:

Сочи -> Soči or Sochi
Донецьк -> Donec'k orDonetsk
Луга́нськ -> Luhans'k or Luhansk or Lugansk
Ялта -> Jalta or Yalta
Хрущёв -> Chruščëv or Khrushchev or KrusciovБрежнев -> Brčžnev or Brezhnev
Горбачёв -> Gorbačëv or Gorbachev or Gorbaciov
Е́льцин -> El'cin or Eltsin or Yeltsin

Why they cannot create a worldwide standard for translitterations? It would be easier to Google such names.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:18 PM   #24850
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Russian and Ukrainian are not the same languages, even though they use the same script.

Soči is the same as Sochi (or hideously written as Sotsji in Dutch ). If Sochi were to be in say, the Czech Republic, it would be written as Soči.

You see the same with the Macedonian town of Štip / Штип which is sometimes written as Shtip. If the Š is written in a non-cyrillic script, it stays Š. If Š is written in Cyrillic, it is transliterated as Sh. That's why you have Sochi and Český Krumlov and not Chesky Krumlov
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:18 PM   #24851
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If you look at Wikipedia articles (at least in English) on the Cyrillic alphabet or those languages, I think that issue's addressed.

EDIT: Arrows for italystf's post. But it still works.
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; May 1st, 2014 at 10:49 PM.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:26 PM   #24852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't think Europe (EU) has any business in the pro-Russian unrest in eastern Ukraine. It's an internal affair. Ukraine will not be able to join the EU in the foreseeable future (if ever) so EU shouldn't make it look like that.
"Business" is the proper word here. I'm sure that at least one, but probably more EU member nations have, or would like to have business interests in Ukraine. And of course a large part of them will be over if Russia acquires some parts of that country.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:27 PM   #24853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If the Š is written in a non-cyrillic script, it stays Š. If Š is written in Cyrillic, it is transliterated as Sh. That's why you have Sochi and Český Krumlov and not Chesky Krumlov
For example you never read Shibenik, Croatia for Šibenik. Most time foreigns would spell it Sibenik, although incorrect.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:31 PM   #24854
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
"Business" is the proper word here. I'm sure that at least one, but probably more EU member nations have, or would like to have business interests in Ukraine. And of course a large part of them will be over if Russia acquires some parts of that country.
EU has more business with Russia than Ukraine, since it's bigger and richer (especially of natural resources). Ukraine is mostly important as gas transit land. Europe mostly seek a political influence there.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:41 PM   #24855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Russian and Ukrainian are not the same languages, even though they use the same script.

Soči is the same as Sochi (or hideously written as Sotsji in Dutch ). If Sochi were to be in say, the Czech Republic, it would be written as Soči.

You see the same with the Macedonian town of Štip / Штип which is sometimes written as Shtip. If the Š is written in a non-cyrillic script, it stays Š. If Š is written in Cyrillic, it is transliterated as Sh. That's why you have Sochi and Český Krumlov and not Chesky Krumlov
Yes, it's all right.
However, the Chinese have developed a transliteration for their language and as for now many European nations use that. Check for instance the Chinese city of Hangzhou, in a lot of languages it is spelled this way, although "zh" does not have any sense in e.g. Croatian, Danish or Italian.

Last edited by Attus; May 1st, 2014 at 10:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:42 PM   #24856
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Ayrton Senna da Silva, three times world champion of Formula One racing series, died twenty years ago, May 1st 1994.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:44 PM   #24857
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Talking about romanization of Russian and other languages which use Cyrillic script: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Russian
Every language has its own transliteration.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 11:34 PM   #24858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
For example you never read Shibenik, Croatia for Šibenik. Most time foreigns would spell it Sibenik, although incorrect.
actually, we also have a village Sibenik (with S, not Š)

but yes, croatian is mostly transliterated only with removed diacritics.
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 12:10 AM   #24859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Russian and Ukrainian are not the same languages, even though they use the same script.

Soči is the same as Sochi (or hideously written as Sotsji in Dutch ). If Sochi were to be in say, the Czech Republic, it would be written as Soči.

You see the same with the Macedonian town of Štip / Штип which is sometimes written as Shtip. If the Š is written in a non-cyrillic script, it stays Š. If Š is written in Cyrillic, it is transliterated as Sh. That's why you have Sochi and Český Krumlov and not Chesky Krumlov
Chesky Krumlov looks pretty cool Btw. the transliteration depends on language, the transliteration is done into.

E.g. In my Language, Beijing is Peking

Russian language is Slavic language and despite differences, we more or less understand each other. Some rules are different, some not and the same goes for vocabulary.

E.g. Automat in Slovak language means vending machine, in Russian rifle Or "banka" is bank in Slovak and glass in Russian. Or "zachod" is toilet in Slovak and sunrise in Russian.

But the roots of Slavic languages are common and therefore we all have common accents, which are written differently

ч (RU) = Ћ (SRB) = č (CZ, SK, HR) = pronounce ch (like cheek)

Since the first two cases are written in different script, it is transliterated right to the language it is transliterated into. Obviously it has no sense to transliterate something from Czech language and therefore it remains written with Czech letters. That is why we have Sochi, but not Cheske Budjeyoveece.
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Last edited by volodaaaa; May 2nd, 2014 at 12:18 AM.
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 01:41 AM   #24860
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Quote:
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But from the American point of view (or one American's point of view), what are we preventing? Our government's - any national government's - first duty is to protect our citizens on our soil..
Or we could say as Putin, "first duty is to protect our citizens, anywhere"

I mean, the first two times, the US got involved and a lot of Americans died. NATO protects America by keeping Europe safe enough that Americans don't have to go out there and put out the fire
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