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Old June 24th, 2014, 04:15 PM   #26021
Surel
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
An efficient solution could be removing children from families who force them to live in favelas, with terrible hygienic conditions and teach them to beg and steal instead to study. Most developed countries already have laws to remove children from parents who don't take care of them properly, should it be a taboo to apply them also to minorities?
I have to say that I am not a friend of the juvenile courts. I don't consider it something where we should be heading for.

The parents should be forced/motivated and helped to be able to take better care for their kids. The stories I heard about Norway, Finland and UK and their "child protection policies" are rather crazy. There are very few things that can damage child more than taking him/her from his/her parents. And poverty or lack of education should not be a crime.

Btw, I heard interesting sociological remark, that the prisons substitute for the lack of social housing and social programs in the USA.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 04:18 PM   #26022
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It is certainly better to mix high income houses with low income houses. I would not put my faith into reporting and repression though. It is rather the better, motivating, sphere, positive example and lack of social aggregation of the problem makers that might keep the neighborhood livable. Otherwise, you will face following problems:

The reporting won't get the problem resolved many times, the problem makers won't change their behavior, when you report them, they might actually threaten you. They won't get arrested either though, because the police will say that they did not do anything that serious to be arrested and convicted.

The high income people will thus see no other solution than to move away.

The high income houses will become unattractive for high income people.

The whole neighborhood might fall back.

If the problem makers are not arrested, but would be removed from the house. They would need to be placed somewhere else (at least in the countries that prevent people become homeless). That "else" place would become a problem neighborhood.
In bold the key problem: at least here in Italy the police is very weak in such cases. If someone reports a petty crime (report against unknown), cops would only write a note of the report, without making further investigation. Even if caught, thieves and vandals often spend very little or no time in prison. On the other hand, if you assault a thief or vandal in your propertry, yes, you go to jail because assault is a serious crime. This attitude really encourages criminals and punishes honest people.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 04:23 PM   #26023
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Liveable cities rankings are overrated. Many are only liveable if you can afford it. Many of the high-ranking liveable cities have exorbitant housing prices that only favors the wealthy and the 'incumbents' (those who bought their houses decades ago for much lower prices).
Kinda like the way the US healthcare system is the best in the world - if you have money. But if you don't...

And in many cases life (or liveability) is what you make of it. Of course it's easier to be happy in a Swedish town than in a refugee camp in the desert but if you can fulfill your basic needs the rest is more or less up to you.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 04:23 PM   #26024
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I was going to say I preferred "liveable" but my spell-check underlined it. No one's infallible. Maybe that's a British spelling. (My reason for preferring it with the E is that without, it looks as if the I should be pronounced long. But I guess I stand corrected. self-)
Oxford Dictionaries (on line) spells it with the E in the "British and world" edition and without in the US edition. British side mentions the non-E spelling as optional in the US; US side doesn't mention the with-E spelling at all. For what it's worth. Can't play more with it now.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...nglish/livable
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...glish/liveable
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Old June 24th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #26025
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There are not so many public owned housings in the Czech Republic left. Most were privatized, sold or they are owned by the cooperative made by the inhabitants. Of those left, they are almost always owned by the municipalities. They are never free. When we have it about the people with the lowest incomes, or jobless, the rent they paid to the municipality in fact comes directly from various benefits they get.

However, there is structural difference (generalizing of course) in how the Roma people care about those houses. This in return causes lack of investment and renovation by the municipalities. This is a cultural problem. Even if you would make them owners of those flats, it would not improve the thing, because you would create just another sort of entitlement feeling for a new flat once the last one becomes unlivable. Similar sort of entitlement is at the core of the current problem with the rented flats. I would say that there is a difference pattern by those of the Roma community that had to buy or build their own house.

Now, in many places a new sort of business emerged. When the municipality moves them out of the flats, either because they don't pay, or because they destroy it etc... there emerged private "residences" that are small flats of very poor quality, privately owned, where the renting is paid on daily or weekly bases. The private owners make sure that the occupants pay their rent (which is mostly directly covered by social benefits) and the houses have so poor quality that they don't have to care about the damage. Let's say it is their know how how they keep the houses in tact and collect the rent. The important thing is however, that the rent is mostly 2-3x higher than in a alternative normal housing, and it is all covered by the social benefits. Thus the money goes right from the government into the pockets of those private residences owners, without having any influence on the quality of the housing those socially weakest live in. I don't know the details, but basically the higher the rent, the more the government has to pay them on the benefits to cover their housing expenses.

A municipally owned housing which would be able to make sure that the houses are not being destroyed would be cheaper and would improve the quality of their lives much more.
Renting houses that don't meet safety and hygienic standards acceptable for 1st world should be a felony.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 06:28 PM   #26026
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That seems wrong though. Can't the free market easily solve that problem immediately? (if safety and hygiene is not there, move somewhere else)

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Wow, and I remember that few years ago Vancouver got ranked the 1st most liveable city in the world.
However in such cases it's not the government that houses people in squalor. Initially those are normal flats (for the years they were built). Their tenants reduce them in squalor.

I think urban planning should always choose gentrification instead of segregation. It's better to build houses of different levels mixed each other.
If a large group of "problematic people"(*) is scattered across a city it would never create a lawless ghetto and can be better controlled.
Imagine a 10-flats block. 9 flats are occupied by normal people, one by problematic people who create a lot of troubles like thefts, vandalism, graffiti, littering, drug dealing,... Inhabitants of other 9 flats would report them to the police, so they can be evicted, and eventually arrested, well before the building get dilapidated.
If a large group of problematic people is concentred in a small place, it become a ghetto where the law isn't enforced, normal people fear to go, nobody would ever open a business,... It also become difficult to catch single responsibles of criminal acts and punish them, if the whole community lives outside laws.

(*)absolutuely unrelated with ethnicity or income, just with actual behaviour
In Vancouver Downtown Eastside, there are a couple of new restaurants, but always people are smashing their window or protesting outside blocking customers to go in, because they call it "gentrification"
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Old June 24th, 2014, 06:59 PM   #26027
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The rivers are drying up in the Czech Republic. This is Labe in Ústí nad Labem. More than 1 m under the normal level. The lowest levels in 70 years.

[IMG]http://oi61.************/34rjae8.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:04 PM   #26028
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Bye bye World Cup
We didn't play well but the referee was a disaster also this time.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #26029
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No worries. Portugal and Spain have also hit the road. And they never expected much from England in the first place...

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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #26030
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I'll still be watching
Even if they are making us play at noon on a workday.

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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:21 PM   #26031
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dafaq, we still have the netherlands and France to root for!
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #26032
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No chance! Only because I bloody say so! I happen to support the Netherlands and France!

Hup Holland and vive la France! I don't support Belgium, because they keep on changing their bloody minds. Now they're all patriotic all over the sudden... Honestly, Michael - I can't see how you're able to keep up with these people...
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:42 PM   #26033
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I was noticing that in the Italian highway code, the following signs are classificated as "indication signs", in contrapposition of "prescription signs". However I think that they're more prescription signs, since they indicate a mandatory behaviour instead of just showing directions:

Road for motorized traffic only: it bans non-motorized traffic.


Pedestrian crossing: it mandates drivers to stop or slow down if there are pedestrians.


One-way road: it forbids drivers to make an U-turn



It looks like that they're classificated as indication signs just because of their square\rectangular shape, while prescription signs are round.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #26034
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In Italy they're nothing more than suggestions worth considering?
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:52 PM   #26035
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No chance! Only because I bloody say so! I happen to support the Netherlands and France!

Hup Holland and vive la France! I don't support Belgium, because they keep on changing their bloody minds. Now they're all patriotic all over the sudden... Honestly, Michael - I can't see how you're able to keep up with these people...
LEVE BELGIË/VIVE LA BELGIQUE.

Unless they play us.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #26036
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LEVE BELGIË/VIVE LA BELGIQUE.

Unless they play us.
You forgot Belgien über alles. You don't want to upset the Belgian German-speaking minority
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Old June 24th, 2014, 10:57 PM   #26037
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Isn't in enough that I now know the Brabançonne in two languages?

(De Standaard published the words last week. There used to be a joke that only the king and Justine Henin knew them.)
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Old June 24th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #26038
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They say that the king is the only true Belgian. If that is the case, if he were to attend a match in Brazil to support his team, in which language would he sing along with the national anthem? I wouldn't bother turning up. I can only imagine it ending up in (another) major embarrassment!
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Old June 24th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #26039
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He did attend the Russia match. I didn't see his lips moving during the anthem.
Of course, since there's a mention of the king in it, one could argue that his singing it would be inappropriate. Like toasting oneself. I know Elizabeth II never sings "God Save, um, Me" in public.

I do like a good national anthem, actually. Had the Russian one stuck in my head for a couple of days last week because the tune's nice....
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Old June 24th, 2014, 11:12 PM   #26040
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I like tuna as well.
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