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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:02 PM   #26721
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Nothing is happening, Bogdymol. Just a difference of opinion in a discussion.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:08 PM   #26722
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Penns
Verso
Volodaa
Road
Bogdy


you see?
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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:21 PM   #26723
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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:35 PM   #26724
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I apologize for my tone, if not the substance. I've been very upset about this. (And other things in my life...it's hard to sort out what's what.) To the point where I'm not eating right the last few days.

When I'm thinking rationally about it...well, until about a week ago I thought Putin was more a nuisance than a real threat. And we were overreacting back in the spring. It had all seemed to calm down a bit and I thought we were going to have to get used to the nuisance...and I personally was going to have to learn to live with the knowledge that the world isn't quite as safe as I'd thought it was (I've been depressed about that since a couple of weeks before the crash.) This last week has thrown me. Verso, you're not completely wrong about the need to calm down a bit, although it's totally understandable that the Dutch wouldn't. But it seems to me that that's the problem. Some undertrained idiot shoots down an airliner full of people from countries that had no stake in this and those countries get - totally justifiably - pissed off.

And that's why, I think, assigning blame and responsibility is important. If we just go back to business as usual we're waiting for the next unintentional international incident and the unpredictable consequences.

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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:44 PM   #26725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
I got back to Ingolstadt this evening, already miss Portugal, what a great vacation that was...

I found a letter in my mailbox, a speeding ticket from 21 May, from Austria (Anonymverfügung, Land Kärnten):
Drove 13 km/h over the allowed limit of 100 km/h at Gemeinde Trebesing, Tauern Autobahn, Umkehrschleife, StrKm 131.921, direction Spittal-Drau.

The amount is 35€
there is quite a downhill before that short tunnel, I see how you were late for slowing down
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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:57 PM   #26726
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@Penn's: sorry, I don't like long posts, so I'll just respond with this long list. If a war breaks out between the West and the rest of the world, I wanna be back in the "rest of the world", while Western Europe can continue being Washington's poodle, if it wants its own destruction.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 06:06 PM   #26727
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Right. You're doubling down. Blame the Americans. Europeans would never hurt a fly.

We prevented Europeans from starting World War III in 1956: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Cr...ional_reaction

But (to get back to the actual current situation as opposed to your prejudices) what would you do about MH17 - tell the Dutch to get over it?
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Old July 25th, 2014, 06:21 PM   #26728
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And what would you do, attack Russia because of it? Yes, they should get over it. It's not a war between Russia and the Netherlands, so there's no need to get personal about it. Whoever shot down that plane is an idiot or just made a stupid mistake (mistaking it for a military plane, f.e.), but it was stupid to fly there in the first place. The whole situation should just calm down instead of this escalation, which brings nothing good.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 06:28 PM   #26729
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Quote:
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And what would you do, attack Russia because of it? Yes, they should get over it. It's not a war between Russia and the Netherlands, so there's no need to get personal about it. Whoever shot down that plane is an idiot or just made a stupid mistake (mistaking it for a military plane, f.e.), but it was stupid to fly there in the first place. The whole situation should just calm down instead of this escalation, which brings nothing good.
Did I say I was advocating attacking Russia? That would be suicidal, and we know it, and Russia knows we know it. (And vice versa.) They* need (as I said about a week ago) to stop fighting. And preferably bring the perpetrator to the court in the Hague or something. Or else just wait until Putin's desire for respect from the world and from his own public overrides his desire to continue supporting this particular band of thugs. I wish I knew how we got there, though....

*Everyone in that area. Heck, everyone everywhere while we're at it....
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; July 25th, 2014 at 06:38 PM.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 07:21 PM   #26730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
@Penn's: sorry, I don't like long posts, so I'll just respond with this long list. If a war breaks out between the West and the rest of the world, I wanna be back in the "rest of the world", while Western Europe can continue being Washington's poodle, if it wants its own destruction.
That list is quite impressively long until you actually read it.

Counting

"1978 – Zaïre (Congo): From May 19 through June, the United States utilized military transport aircraft to provide logistical support to Belgian and French rescue operations in Zaïre"

or

"1992–96 – Bosnia and Herzegovina: Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.[8]"

or

"2005–06 – Pakistan: President Bush deploys troops from US Army Air Cav Brigades to provide Humanitarian relief to far remote villages in the Kashmir mountain ranges of Pakistan stricken by a massive earthquake."

or many other of the items as acts of American aggression is ridiculous.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #26731
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Ok, is this better?
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Old July 25th, 2014, 07:56 PM   #26732
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this reminds me of an almost forgotten video of my teenage years



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Old July 25th, 2014, 08:09 PM   #26733
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Ok, is this better?
Remove the ones we didn't start. Like "World" (European) Wars I and II.

I'm checking out of this discussion. You're not reading what I'm actually saying, just seeing "American" and reflexively regurgitating your list of our real and supposed sins. It's idiotic and beside the point and I don't have the emotional energy for it right now.

Peace. Seriously.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 08:11 PM   #26734
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Hi. Normally I'd be out there like a bat out of hell, but I'm going through a bad patch again, and I don't feel too good.

Please take it easy guys. America and Europe still need each other, more than we need Russia. We still share the same values.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 08:14 PM   #26735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Peace.
You're American, I don't believe you know what that word means

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Old July 25th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #26736
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=804144202959100
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Old July 25th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #26737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Hi. Normally I'd be out there like a bat out of hell, but I'm going through a bad patch again, and I don't feel too good.

Please take it easy guys. America and Europe still need each other, more than we need Russia. We still share the same values.
Yes, but i still consider it stupid to call for stronger sactions against Russia for shooting down the plane if we don't know who and why.

This is not the Erepublik game. All sides need to calm down. I don't blame anyone. It would have been too early to do conclusions even if it had been accidentaly crashd plane in the middle of e.g. France.

I don't like Russian policy, but blame Putin for bad weather does not make sense. I like Angela Merkel's opinion on this issue. Some certain Russians should be banned, Putin discussed, but Europe does not need cold war.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 10:22 PM   #26738
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Stronger sanctions will have to apply to Russia if it is proven that they are responsible for arming and training the rebels, and therefor not respecting the sovereignty of Ukraine. If it becomes clear that Russia has provided the tools to shoot down the plane, it will become clear that not only is it proven that Russia is a big bully, but that there is enough evidence that Russia is becoming a hazard to peace and stability in the whole of Europe. If this is the case, then Russia has to be stopped through sanctions to begin with.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 10:22 PM   #26739
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Yes, but i still consider it stupid to call for stronger sactions against Russia for shooting down the plane if we don't know who and why.
Exactly. Why the hell would Russia intentionally shoot down a Malaysian civil plane (so it wasn't even Dutch) just for being Malaysian? Makes as much sense as Malta declaring war on Fiji. We should say NO to warmongering.

PS: I guess this isn't the best thread for discussing this

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Old July 25th, 2014, 10:25 PM   #26740
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Exactly. Why the hell would Russia intentionally shoot down a Dutch civil plane just for being Dutch? Makes as much sense as Malta declaring war on Fiji. We should say NO to warmongering.

PS: I guess this isn't the best thread for discussing this
The fact that this weapon can cross an international border into a sovereign state with no other reason than to bring down this sovereign state should be enough cause for concern. Ultimately it will affect all of us.
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