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Old August 6th, 2014, 03:40 PM   #27001
Road_UK
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Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
I don't think so,because Serbia is curently negotiate with European Union about entering Serbia as it's member , and i think that European Union will have better economy because of Serbia and it's deal with Russia.
You're missing the point. The EU and Russia are not the best of friends right now. We are placing economic sanctions on Russia right now. Basically we don't want to do any business with Russia at all because of its appalling behaviour. So no, we will not be better off if Serbia joins the EU and continues to do business with Russia. That has been made clear in the Ukraine situation. Besides, I do believe business between Germany, France and Russia were a lot stronger than between Serbia and Russia.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 03:42 PM   #27002
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We did not face Russia directly in Kosovo.
We won't now either. It's just Ukrainians against Russian-speaking Ukrainians, Russia won't enter officially the conflict. Of course Russia is already in the conflict, but masquerading as discontent Ukrainians who want to join the Motherland.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 03:43 PM   #27003
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Economical sanctions are the measure of EU's powerlessness.
EU powerlessness is seen in the first place in the fact that there are any sanctions at all. Instead of reacting with **** the USA when hearing **** the EU, the EU countries introduces sanctions that will only benefit the USA.

I would not react to this issue as my opinions on it were not welcomed on this forum and got me banned on the DLM. It is just that I don't want to be included in sides when I hear someone proclaiming here "our of their side" mantra when exactly this mantra and its strengthening in the public discourse is behind the whole problem and lots of other problems in international politics. The our side mantra is even more dangerous/idiotic when the actual "side" is to the benefit of someone else than those that are made/compelled supporting it.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 03:47 PM   #27004
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Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
I don't think so,because Serbia is curently negotiate with European Union about entering Serbia as it's member , and i think that European Union will have better economy because of Serbia and it's deal with Russia.
Just a fact remark. If the Serbia was to enter the EU, any "special trade deals" it has with Russia would have to be most probably cancelled. This comes from the basic fact that EU is a customs union.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #27005
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We won't now either. It's just Ukrainians against Russian-speaking Ukrainians, Russia won't enter officially the conflict. Of course Russia is already in the conflict, but masquerading as discontent Ukrainians who want to join the Motherland.
We are already involved. Sanctions from both sides are hitting us hard. We are also still dealing with the aftermath of the downing of MH17, the Russian hostility towards NATO and the fact that major armies in Europe are now holding exercises in the Baltic area. Also especially Poland is alarmed as we speak because of high concentrations of Russian troops along the border with the Ukraine. I am highly active in the Dutch Ukraine thread right now, which has been given a boost since flight MH17 came down, killing mostly Dutch citizens.

We are in the middle of it.

Last edited by Road_UK; August 6th, 2014 at 04:04 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 04:04 PM   #27006
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It's not the first time that an airliner has been shot down, as sad as it may be, and it probably won't be the last:

- Korean Airlines flight 007
- Iran Air 655
- Siberia Airlines 1812

not to mention Itavia 870, known in Italy as "the Ustica massacre", for which no definitive truth has come up in 30 years.

Not one of these episodes started a war.
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Old August 6th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #27007
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An Israeli passenger plane was shot down over Bulgaria in the 50s. The plane was supposed to fly over Yugoslavia, but for unknown reasons it entered Bulgarian airspace. Two jets, that were scrambled from the unit responsible for defending Sofia tried to warn the pilots and make them follow them. They didn't and the fighter pilots received an order if the plane tries to escape to shoot it down. 58 people died.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 12:33 AM   #27008
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Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
I don't think so,because Serbia is curently negotiate with European Union about entering Serbia as it's member , and i think that European Union will have better economy because of Serbia and it's deal with Russia.
That deal will be void.

EU doesn't need another (even bigger) Russian trojan horse.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 02:44 AM   #27009
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I don't like economical sanctions against any country. They usually punish the poorer part of the population, instead of the government. Putin and other powerful Russian men would still be rich even with sanctions, while the common Russian population would suffer the biggest consequences. Look at what is happening in Cuba, with 50 years of US sanctions. After the USSR collapsed, Cuba is no longer a danger for the world peace, since it is isolated and not anymore backed by a superpower. But nevertheless, Americans still countinue with sanctions, impoverishing the general population. It's even illegal for an American citizen to do tourism in Cuba. The only embargo that is acceptable (against Russia or any other "dangerous" country) is the weapon embargo. We should not sell weapons to a country that can use them against other countries or its citizens.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; August 7th, 2014 at 03:01 AM.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 02:56 AM   #27010
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
We won't now either. It's just Ukrainians against Russian-speaking Ukrainians, Russia won't enter officially the conflict. Of course Russia is already in the conflict, but masquerading as discontent Ukrainians who want to join the Motherland.
Also EU\Nato are probably already in the conflict, but masquerading as pro-EU Ukrainian citizens. Remember the CIA involvement in the 1973 Chilean coup...
It's a contraddiction that the EU strongly condemns some right-wing politicians of EU countries (Le Pen, Farange, Wilders, Orban,...), who, albeit with some extreme ideologies, operate within the democratic system, and at the same time, supports far-right movements in the Ukraine (Svoboda and Pravy Sektor), that are true terroristic organization (before Yanukovic deposition and rise of pro-Russian violence in the east, the pro-EU groups were the most violent).
It's like with Muslim fondamentalists: enemies and terrorists after 9/11, peace heroes and freedom fighters when they fight against Gheddafi, Mubarak, Assad,...
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:41 AM   #27011
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I don't like economical sanctions against any country. They usually punish the poorer part of the population, instead of the government. Putin and other powerful Russian men would still be rich even with sanctions, while the common Russian population would suffer the biggest consequences. Look at what is happening in Cuba, with 50 years of US sanctions. After the USSR collapsed, Cuba is no longer a danger for the world peace, since it is isolated and not anymore backed by a superpower. But nevertheless, Americans still countinue with sanctions, impoverishing the general population. It's even illegal for an American citizen to do tourism in Cuba. The only embargo that is acceptable (against Russia or any other "dangerous" country) is the weapon embargo. We should not sell weapons to a country that can use them against other countries or its citizens.
You have a point but the effect of US sanction on Cuba is essentially trivial, selling a few cigars would not stop those people from being crushingly impoverished.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 09:21 AM   #27012
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@italystf: or even if we go back further: The CIA supported Bin Laden against the Soviets, the US openly supported Saddam's Iraq against Iran (even after the war crimes that regime committed against the Kurds) and so on. These were not about principles, these were about interests.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 09:11 PM   #27013
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what to do in case of being tailgated? do you react somehow?
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Old August 7th, 2014, 10:39 PM   #27014
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Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
And if we think that we also pay a lot because these people are against surveillance cameras...If there will be cameras on public spaces not so many cars would be stolen, so the insurance will be much cheaper, equally with house insurance. And for normal people that have nothing to hide it doesn't affect anything. What can I loose if NSA sees me everyday and I behave absolutely normal? How can someone use this against me?
Replace "NSA" with "KGB", there's not much difference.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 01:14 AM   #27015
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what to do in case of being tailgated? do you react somehow?
I drive fast enough I never get tailgated
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Old August 8th, 2014, 10:12 AM   #27016
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what to do in case of being tailgated? do you react somehow?
First I try to ignore it (assuming I am not fast lane hogger). But when it gets too annoying I usually
1. Speed up a little bit
2. Slow down and give a tailgater chance to overtake me. If he doesn't understand I turn the indicator to the right. If he doesn't get it either I am angry.
3. If he hang on my rear too long and I drive quite fast, I start very frequently slightly stepping on the brake pedal. My car doesn't slows down, just lights the brake lights up.
4. If nothing above works, I turns the wipes and screen washer on.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 10:24 AM   #27017
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@italystf: or even if we go back further: The CIA supported Bin Laden against the Soviets, the US openly supported Saddam's Iraq against Iran (even after the war crimes that regime committed against the Kurds) and so on. These were not about principles, these were about interests.
This cold war 2.0 is not about priciples either. A France state-owned company (basically controlled by French government) is selling warships to Russian army (basically controlled by Russian government) and it is absolutely all right.

But if a private enterpriser from EU (the only thing he has common with his home country is that he pays taxes there) sells a product to a Russian individual (also, we don't know if he supports Putin and current Russian government and it should not be relevant) we say "How did he dare!? Poor Ukrainians are dying and they've lost Crimea! What a heartless monster! The money are more important over human rights to him!

It is all ridiculous.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 10:27 AM   #27018
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This cold war 2.0 is not about priciples either. A France state-owned company (basically controlled by French government) is selling warships to Russian army (basically controlled by Russian government) and it is absolutely all right.

But if a private enterpriser from EU (the only thing he has common with his home country is that he pays taxes there) sells a product to a Russian individual (also, we don't know if he supports Putin and current Russian government and it should not be relevant) we say "How did he dare!? Poor Ukrainians are dying and they've lost Crimea! What a heartless monster! The money are more important over human rights to him!

It is all ridiculous.
Yeah, we already discussed this if I remember it correctly. Which are more dangerous: warships or cherries?

anyway If you read a few things about the 1944 Warsaw uprising and its aftermath, you will see the true colors of both the East and the West.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 11:36 AM   #27019
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I am sorry to bring that topic up, but Yugoslavia and its breakup is a great example of border crossings and the ways they've been erected.

I'm still hoping ex-Yugoslav nations (mostly young generations) understand what is going on and are used to get along. Sometimes, these stupid flamewars really disappoint me.

Yugoslavia and its successor republics are beautiful and people there are so kind and hospitable. Don't know where such hatred origins.
Because the war are still on peoples minds. Not just the territorial side, but some pretty awful things has happened there with mass killings and everything. Quite recent as well. They are still blaming each other.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 11:53 AM   #27020
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
This cold war 2.0 is not about priciples either. A France state-owned company (basically controlled by French government) is selling warships to Russian army (basically controlled by Russian government) and it is absolutely all right.

But if a private enterpriser from EU (the only thing he has common with his home country is that he pays taxes there) sells a product to a Russian individual (also, we don't know if he supports Putin and current Russian government and it should not be relevant) we say "How did he dare!? Poor Ukrainians are dying and they've lost Crimea! What a heartless monster! The money are more important over human rights to him!

It is all ridiculous.
It happens also with sport events: South Africa was banned from all international competition because of the apartheid. Some partially-recognized countries like Kosovo and Abkhazia cannot take part to the olympics and other international competitions because other countries wouldn't accept that. But on the other hand we allow evil regimes like North Korea or Saudi Arabia to take part of international competitions. It's known that North Korean footballer are tortured if they lose a match. They never excluded East Germany either, and they knew how they manage to win so many medals,...
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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