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Old September 11th, 2014, 07:07 PM   #27501
keokiracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
A mentally ill man is allowed to drive a car?
They had him 'tested', he turned out not to be mentally unstable, got sent home, saw the parking ticket, went mental and is now back at the psychriatic hospital.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 07:25 PM   #27502
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The doctors who tested him and judge him as sane should be fired.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 07:36 PM   #27503
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The doctors who tested him and judge him as sane should be fired.
Perhaps it was part of his examination

You know that proverb:

To find out what person you deal with, let him/her take a chair and run youtube with slow internet.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 08:45 PM   #27504
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
The doctors who tested him and judge him as sane should be fired.
It's so easy to judge like that.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to diagnose such a patient? You can't confine a person without proof that he would harm someone or himself.
Here in Germany, you have to convince the patient to stay, if he doesn't want to, you have to let him go, or ask for a judge (that is specialized in this field). He is the only one who could confine him. The only reason not to let someone go, is, if he is intoxicated with over 2 pro mile, case he is considered unable to decide for himself.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:02 PM   #27505
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It's so easy to judge like that.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to diagnose such a patient?
So? Every job is difficult. A postman who doesn't deliver mail, an architect who designs a building that can't stand, a researcher cheating on his work, every one of them gets fired... why shouldn't a psychiatrist who fails a diagnosis?
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:12 PM   #27506
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Because patients are human beings and not the mail.

You have actually no method of knowing exactly what your patient will do. He could be lying to you and then go kill himself without showing any symptoms of being suicidal. But you can't confide every patient preventive?
And it's not like you can solve the problem by giving the patient a pill. Firstly you can't force him to take it, secondly, the human brain is so complex...
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:17 PM   #27507
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Quote:
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Because patients are human beings and not the mail.

You have actually no method of knowing exactly what your patient will do. He could be lying to you and then go kill himself without showing any symptoms of being suicidal. But you can't confide every patient preventive?

a short example from my fiancée who is in last grade of medicine school and spend lot of time with patients as a trainee.

People from genuine wine areas don't consider wine an alcohol. They tell you with poker face they are abstainers and admit drinking at least 5dl of wine daily on a regular base at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
researcher cheating on his work
Not a good example. Sadly, common practice all over the world
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:27 PM   #27508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post

Because patients are human beings and not the mail.
Then again, so? An architect builds a house that crashes, killing all of its occupants. Shouldn't he be fired?
Working with people is no excuse for being sloppy.

Quote:
You have actually no method of knowing exactly what your patient will do. He could be lying to you and then go kill himself without showing any symptoms of being suicidal. But you can't confide every patient preventive?
And it's not like you can solve the problem by giving the patient a pill. Firstly you can't force him to take it, secondly, the human brain is so complex...
If you can't recognize a patient lying to you, you are a bad psychiatrist and deserve to be fired.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:28 PM   #27509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
If you can't recognize a patient lying to you, you are a bad psychiatrist and deserve to be fired.
No one can read peoples minds.
Why don't you fire every surgeon, there is none that successfully operated every patient.

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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
a short example from my fiancée who is in last grade of medicine school and spend lot of time with patients as a trainee.
People from genuine wine areas don't consider wine an alcohol. They tell you with poker face they are abstainers and admit drinking at least 5dl of wine daily on a regular base at the same time

Not a good example. Sadly, common practice all over the world
What medicine branch is your fiancee thinking on going after she finishes studies?
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:32 PM   #27510
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double post
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:32 PM   #27511
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On a sidenote I bought a GPS device last week. But it had one major flaw: the default map didn't include the Balkans. So my first thing to do was to install a new one
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:33 PM   #27512
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On a sidenote I bought a GPS device last week. But it had one major flaw: the default map didn't include the Balkans. So my first thing to do was to install a new one
I have bought a Miro, but I installed iGO on it
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:36 PM   #27513
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No one can read peoples minds.
Why don't you fire every surgeon, there is none that successfully operated every patient.
That's different. You make the family sign a consent.
If a psychiatrist isn't sure whether a patient is dangerous, he should not release him. If he does, then he has to be 101% sure.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:39 PM   #27514
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A psychiatrist is a doctor, not a prison guard. A psychiatrist cannot keep someone locked up unless there is a judge order to do so.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:42 PM   #27515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
That's different. You make the family sign a consent.
If a psychiatrist isn't sure whether a patient is dangerous, he should not release him. If he does, then he has to be 101% sure.
And what did the guy? He trashed his own car. You don't have to be psychiatric ill to do that.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:54 PM   #27516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
And what did the guy? He trashed his own car. You don't have to be psychiatric ill to do that.
According to what keokiracer said, he actually is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A psychiatrist is a doctor, not a prison guard. A psychiatrist cannot keep someone locked up unless there is a judge order to do so.
But the judge almost always relies on what the psychiatrist says.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:59 PM   #27517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
No one can read peoples minds.
Why don't you fire every surgeon, there is none that successfully operated every patient.



What medicine branch is your fiancee thinking on going after she finishes studies?
She'd like to be GP. First she wanted to be paediatrician, but after exercises she definitely changed her mind. 99 % of mothers have PhD. in google browsing and they are often very annoying. If you don't cure the children with influenza within 1 day or don't prescribe antibiotics to coughing, you are definitely a bad doctor and mothers will tear you up on those bored-and-worried-mothers-discussion-boards They don't understand antibiotics are not a magic wand and the threat of side effects as well as fading efficiency.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 10:01 PM   #27518
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Most cases don't even get to a judge. I once had a neighbor a couple of apartments apart who was mentally ill (under psychosis sometimes) and he wrecked a lot of windows of the public part of the building. He was under treatment by a psychiatrist, but this is usually voluntary.

We wanted to get rid of him, but we couldn't because he was not a 'demonstrable risk'. That changed when he burned down a moped and filled his apartment with gas. He was then detained by police and then admitted to involuntary commitment, as they call it. Basically a mental institution run like a prison.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 10:09 PM   #27519
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Chris, you argue very well, as if you would be a psychiatrist or have one in your house

And if we are at the subject, it was posted by my finacee on her FB (she is a psychiatrist)
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Old September 11th, 2014, 10:15 PM   #27520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Most cases don't even get to a judge. I once had a neighbor a couple of apartments apart who was mentally ill (under psychosis sometimes) and he wrecked a lot of windows of the public part of the building. He was under treatment by a psychiatrist, but this is usually voluntary.

We wanted to get rid of him, but we couldn't because he was not a 'demonstrable risk'. That changed when he burned down a moped and filled his apartment with gas. He was then detained by police and then admitted to involuntary commitment, as they call it. Basically a mental institution run like a prison.
It is not fun when it comes to gas. Remembering the case from Frenštát pod Radhoštem Czech Republic:

Before 16th february of 2013:


After 16th february of 2013:


Insane man in dept killed 6 people.

We had similar individual in our house. Fortunately he has alternative house where to live and he sell his apartment this week.
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