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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:13 AM   #28181
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Couple years ago Hungary was mulling a Soviet-style law prohibiting graduates from universities from moving abroad for 10 years. Not sure what happened to that.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 05:25 AM   #28182
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Quote:
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Completely irrelevantly, I just discovered an obsolete coin in my pocket: a Canadian penny.
I was just gonna talk to you about Canada, I remember once a while ago I found a bilingual stop sign in Quebec on Google streetview and was quite suprised, you said they used to be standard and you thought I had seen a monolingual English one, which would've surprised you, there's at least two in Hampstead.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 06:01 AM   #28183
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the Quebec stop signs are typically always "ARRET" however some areas of Montreal island will show ARRET / STOP and some real "STOP" signs in heavily anglophone areas of the island (the STOP sign is after all still technically French as in France!)
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 07:07 AM   #28184
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First time I was in Quebec was in the 70s, and my memory (which could be wrong) is that they said STOP/ARRÊT. In that order. They wouldn't have to have been that old, though, to have predated Law 101. [Edited to add:] I was surprised some years later, my first time in France, to see that they only said STOP there.

I know the law on commercial signs (found unconstitutional anyway) didn't apply in majority-Anglophone municipalities (is Hampstead one?) What about government signs (street names, traffic signs, signs on public buildings)?

Kanadzie, thinking of Ottawa, by the way. Did you hear O Canada was played tonight in Pittsburgh at the Penguins/Flyers game?
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 11:47 AM   #28185
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Snoooooow! Winter has come way early this year... Just been busy clearing the driveway...
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:28 PM   #28186
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Completely irrelevantly, I just discovered an obsolete coin in my pocket: a Canadian penny.
This summer I found a big rusty coin in a hiking trail. Initially I though I found a 2€ coin, but then I discovered it was an old SFR Yugoslavia coin.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:32 PM   #28187
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Couple years ago Hungary was mulling a Soviet-style law prohibiting graduates from universities from moving abroad for 10 years. Not sure what happened to that.
No, it was only for students who get state benefits for their studies. But EU media volountarily omitted this detail to make the eurosceptic Hungarian government look like even worse.
Anyway, such a law would be impossible to implement, since it's clearly against EU principes of free movement. Like the Swedish proposal to require visas to Romanian and Bulgarian tourists.
Nobody has the right to prevent an EU citizen to go to another EU country.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:58 PM   #28188
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Snoooooow! Winter has come way early this year... Just been busy clearing the driveway...
Snoow is in Serbia too,but not much as in Mayrhofen.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:03 PM   #28189
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Here obviously no snow, but only 13°C and rain (until a couple of days ago you were confortable in T-shirt during daytime). Yesterday evening I lighted the fireplace for the first time since early April.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:32 PM   #28190
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No, it was only for students who get state benefits for their studies. But EU media volountarily omitted this detail to make the eurosceptic Hungarian government look like even worse.
Anyway, such a law would be impossible to implement, since it's clearly against EU principes of free movement. Like the Swedish proposal to require visas to Romanian and Bulgarian tourists.
Nobody has the right to prevent an EU citizen to go to another EU country.
I know that, but it is still very Soviet. One of the major arguments used by Eastern European communist dictatorships to ban travel to the West was that is would be extremely unfair, for instance, for West Germany to accept East German engineers, doctors and physicists as immigrants, having paid nothing for their education.

So that proposal is abhorrent. Several European countries have study financing schemes that involve loans. You still need to pay loans even if you move abroad, but you are free do to so.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:53 PM   #28191
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I know that, but it is still very Soviet. One of the major arguments used by Eastern European communist dictatorships to ban travel to the West was that is would be extremely unfair, for instance, for West Germany to accept East German engineers, doctors and physicists as immigrants, having paid nothing for their education.

So that proposal is abhorrent. Several European countries have study financing schemes that involve loans. You still need to pay loans even if you move abroad, but you are free do to so.
It's abhorrent and backward also because it increases the gap between the wealthy who can pay for their studies and then go abroad, and the less wealthy who depend on public benefits and would be forced to stay in their country for 10 years. In a modern, democratic and developed country, studying and career opportunities should be equal for everybody, with only merit as discriminant. Otherwise, generational social mobility would be very hard if not impossible (i.e. only sons of rich families could have a prestigious career).
Ironically, Orban is strongly anti-communism and critical of the Soviet regime.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:54 PM   #28192
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The main problem is that a doctor may have a ten times bigger salary in the UK than in Hungary. So a majority(!) of Hungarian medical students want to go to abroad immediately after graduated. And it is really not fair that Hungarian tax payers pay a lot of money for educating those people and then they work somewhere in England.
So the government offered two ways:
- either you have your education paid by the Hungarian state, and you stay in Hungary for several years
- or you pay it yourself (directly or by loans, there are loans available for this purpose) and you're free to leave the country when you want to.
But the the students protested and said that they want the state pay their education although they won't work any single day in Hungary.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:55 PM   #28193
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in southern spain , yesterday 38º
now in the north 10º
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 02:21 PM   #28194
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Snoooooow! Winter has come way early this year... Just been busy clearing the driveway...
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 02:28 PM   #28195
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The main problem is that a doctor may have a ten times bigger salary in the UK than in Hungary. So a majority(!) of Hungarian medical students want to go to abroad immediately after graduated. And it is really not fair that Hungarian tax payers pay a lot of money for educating those people and then they work somewhere in England.
So the government offered two ways:
- either you have your education paid by the Hungarian state, and you stay in Hungary for several years
- or you pay it yourself (directly or by loans, there are loans available for this purpose) and you're free to leave the country when you want to.
But the the students protested and said that they want the state pay their education although they won't work any single day in Hungary.
The government can set up a scheme where education is paid out of loans to cover its cost, and then for key professions the government can offer loan reduction for time spent working on social services.

Of course, this would open the possibility that some Hungarian students, facing large loans such as those required to provide for the high costs of instruction on fields like medicine of certain disciplines of engineering, move abroad and study abroad already.

But at the realm of the argument is the paradigm that the State doesn't own its citizens because it provides social services to them. It is a cornerstone of democracy.

This remind me of some African governments asking EU to self-impose a moratorium on visas for health professionals coming from certain countries in Africa, to force them to work locally. That happened a couple years ago and went nowhere.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 02:45 PM   #28196
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This summer I found a big rusty coin in a hiking trail. Initially I though I found a 2€ coin, but then I discovered it was an old SFR Yugoslavia coin.
Well, Canadian and U.S. coins of the same denomination are similar enough in size that it's not that unusual to have one of the other country's coins turn up in your change. Particularly if you're in an area like Maine, near the border. (Or were recently there...My guess is this has been hanging around in my pocket since my vacation.) But Canada abolished the penny (one-cent coin) some time ago....
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 02:47 PM   #28197
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Snoooooow! Winter has come way early this year... Just been busy clearing the driveway...
That'll keep you out of trouble for a bit.

But no, it's not time yet.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 03:02 PM   #28198
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I told you all we say "nor'easter": http://www.weather.com/news/weather-...antic-20141018

It's pouring outside. Rained all day yesterday too. But we seem to be near the end of it.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 03:27 PM   #28199
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The main problem is that a doctor may have a ten times bigger salary in the UK than in Hungary. So a majority(!) of Hungarian medical students want to go to abroad immediately after graduated. And it is really not fair that Hungarian tax payers pay a lot of money for educating those people and then they work somewhere in England.
So the government offered two ways:
- either you have your education paid by the Hungarian state, and you stay in Hungary for several years
- or you pay it yourself (directly or by loans, there are loans available for this purpose) and you're free to leave the country when you want to.
But the the students protested and said that they want the state pay their education although they won't work any single day in Hungary.
And how do you expect to enforce that? By withdrawing their passports for 10 years? No, because they would still be able to work in other EU countries and even if they work in Hungary they may want to be able to leave EU for vacations or something. Arresting them when they return in Hungary? It would be overkilling. Punishing their relatives who remain at home? It would be really Stalinist\North Korean style! I understand that no country likes brain drain, but if a country cannot provide decents workplaces or salaries for educated professionits, is it's own fault!

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But at the realm of the argument is the paradigm that the State doesn't own its citizens because it provides social services to them. It is a cornerstone of democracy.
This happens in every wellfare-based modern democracy. Its morality is questionable, though.
Why do most countries mandate the use of seat belts in cars? Or helmets in motorcycles (or even bycicles, like in Australia)? Why do many countries issue "nanny state" laws, whose their only aim is to protect the individual... from his own behaviour! Simply, because the state pays for health care and has interest in reducing the number of people who get ill or injured.
Of course, these laws are presented as aimed to improve the public health and safety.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 04:49 PM   #28200
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And how do you expect to enforce that? By withdrawing their passports for 10 years? No, because they would still be able to work in other EU countries and even if they work in Hungary they may want to be able to leave EU for vacations or something. Arresting them when they return in Hungary? It would be overkilling. Punishing their relatives who remain at home? It would be really Stalinist\North Korean style! I understand that no country likes brain drain, but if a country cannot provide decents workplaces or salaries for educated professionits, is it's own fault!
It would be very easy to tackle this issue. You could introduce either college payments subsidized by the state, that would be not required to be paid back if the student stayed in the country for the next x years. And you could also introduce various stipendia with the same effect.

edit: just now I see that Attus wrote just this was proposed. Hmm.... there is nothing wrong with it. And the enforcement is simple: distraint...

No, it is the fault of the student that just wants to accept social welfare but refuses to provide any in return...
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