daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 31st, 2014, 12:58 PM   #28381
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,452
Likes (Received): 1932

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post

I get 17 days to take whenever I want, plus legal holidays, plus - because of where I work - lots of Jewish holidays. My last vacation, October 9 through 19, consisted of four Jewish holidays, two weekends and three vacation days I chose to take then. Lots of us do that where I work. And I'm not Jewish so to me they're just days off.
I thought Americans had to work every possible day! I've seen many graphics comparing how many vacation days every country gets and all said the US got no vacation.

As for me, since I'm a student I still get the same vacation as the kids .
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 31st, 2014, 01:13 PM   #28382
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I wouldn't want the month-long blocks of vacation which I have the impression are common in Europe...I wouldn't know what to do with myself. Much rather have shorter breaks more often.
I always took vacations whenever I wanted, never forced to take them all together. I don't think "month-long blocks" of vacation are so common in Europe, except for factory workers, when factories closed down for a whole month in August... but that's really more a thing of the past.

For my current job I have theoretically no limits on vacations. As long as I get the job done, I can work in my office, or at home, or wherever I want. The only plus of going to the office is that I get 5,29€ worth of meal tickets per day. And the interaction with my coworkers of course, and my boss. Even though interacting or not interacting with my current boss is more or less the same.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 01:42 PM   #28383
Alex_ZR
Registered User
 
Alex_ZR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zrenjanin
Posts: 2,903
Likes (Received): 4003

Interesting Honda campaign. Press the R button during watching the video.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HondaVideo
__________________

keokiracer, Capt.Vimes, Verso liked this post
Alex_ZR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 02:41 PM   #28384
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Breaking news: prime minister Orbán declared that the proposal of internet tax will be withdrawn.
Didn't you, or someone, predict that?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 02:45 PM   #28385
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
I thought Americans had to work every possible day! I've seen many graphics comparing how many vacation days every country gets and all said the US got no vacation.
Europeans are told a lot of bullshit about the US. I'm serious.

Seriously, I think there's no legal requirement, at least at the federal level, that employers offer vacation, and that's what your graphics are showing. But employers can't get away with not providing vacation; no one would work for them. In other words, the market, rather than the state, has taken care of that issue. Whether that's the right way to go about it is another issue....

__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 02:48 PM   #28386
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I always took vacations whenever I wanted, never forced to take them all together. I don't think "month-long blocks" of vacation are so common in Europe, except for factory workers, when factories closed down for a whole month in August... but that's really more a thing of the past.
In fact, it's a thing of when I was first studying French in the 70s!

But meal tickets? Is that something you use at the employer's cafeteria or.... (I'm asking because I've heard of something in Belgium called chèques-repas - literally "meal checks" - but I'm not clear what it is.)
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 02:51 PM   #28387
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Seriously, I think there's no legal requirement, at least at the federal level, that employers offer vacation, and that's what your graphics are showing. But employers can't get away with not providing vacation; no one would work for them. In other words, the market, rather than the state, has taken care of that issue. Whether that's the right way to go about it is another issue....

This may work in a state where there's virtually no unemployement and people can afford the luxury to quit a job for such reasons: they'll find quickly another job.

Here in old Europe things are quite different. If employers were not forced to provide vacations, not one of them would do so: workers are so in need that they can't simply quit and look for another job...

Last edited by g.spinoza; October 31st, 2014 at 02:57 PM.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 02:55 PM   #28388
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
In fact, it's a thing of when I was first studying French in the 70s!

But meal tickets? Is that something you use at the employer's cafeteria or.... (I'm asking because I've heard of something in Belgium called chèques-repas - literally "meal checks" - but I'm not clear what it is.)
They were born, as you say, to be used at the internal cafeteria: employers get some kind of fiscal advantages in providing such checks, don't ask me how because I have no idea.
However, many restaurants and supermarkets now accept these checks as payment, often with very different rules from shop to shop. For instance, the Ipercoop supermarket near my home accept tickets only for payments below 30€ and only for food (no soap, alcohol, etc.). The Crai supermarket just around the corner has no limitations (I can even buy booze). In some Conad supermarkets (but not all of them) you can buy only fresh food with tickets: so no pasta, no canned beans, etc.

It's a jungle.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 03:35 PM   #28389
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

The lack of regulations on labor market in US affects less managerial jobs or graduate jobs, compared to Europe, than it affects more simple jobs, or those not requiring college degrees.

I recently read the latest fad in US are restricting covenants where a person obliges not to work in a competitor for a given period of time if she/he voluntarily leave a job. Once this was used in cases like CEOs or other high-ranked well-paid positions in research or marketing that would gave a leaving employee the possibility of doing serious damage by joining a competitor and sharing all secrets. Now, it appears that even jobs like store retail supervision are coming with these restrictions, so if you work for a national chain taking care of a team of clerks there, and you leave the company, you can't legally find another job for a year.

Another rampant issue is the way scheduling for hour workers has become. People earning minimum wages now get schedules just 2-3 days before actual work in many businesses, and they are expected to be available to work all the time. If they are lucky they clock a lot of hours, if not they are ignored on other shifts. And they might come as 2h in the morning, 3h (unpaid) interval, 4.5h in the afternoon, then next day 5h early evening... All of that in a minimum wage. In the relatively recent past at least low-paid jobs had some predictability in terms of schedule and thus income.

It must suck big time to have to survive in these conditions, compared to Europe.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 03:41 PM   #28390
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
They were born, as you say, to be used at the internal cafeteria: employers get some kind of fiscal advantages in providing such checks, don't ask me how because I have no idea.
However, many restaurants and supermarkets now accept these checks as payment, often with very different rules from shop to shop. For instance, the Ipercoop supermarket near my home accept tickets only for payments below 30€ and only for food (no soap, alcohol, etc.). The Crai supermarket just around the corner has no limitations (I can even buy booze). In some Conad supermarkets (but not all of them) you can buy only fresh food with tickets: so no pasta, no canned beans, etc.

It's a jungle.
The logic comes from the patrozining policies of decades past (it is not something exclusive to Italy btw, though it was embraced full-force there). There was a time when unions were very patronizing towards workers, thinking of them not only as a weaker link a labor relation, but also kinda dumb and unable to make decisions for themselves. So these "controlled perks" like extra money that could only be used for food (and not 'wasted' on booze or entertainment) were enacted. There was a sexist element to it as well: it was unfair that women (who mostly didn't work) had to deal with scarcity of food in the home with the kids while the husband mismanaged his salary - so they said.

So government enacted certain tax breaks for these sorts of activities. When the economy boomed, even though affording basic food ceased to be a major problem for the employed, the practice stayed. And it stays to this day. It is a sort of thing nobody involved on it has to gain, politically, from trying to scrap and just integrate on normal salary.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 03:47 PM   #28391
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

To me, this is just 100€ per month more on my paycheck.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 03:58 PM   #28392
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The lack of regulations on labor market in US affects less managerial jobs or graduate jobs, compared to Europe, than it affects more simple jobs, or those not requiring college degrees.

I recently read the latest fad in US are restricting covenants where a person obliges not to work in a competitor for a given period of time if she/he voluntarily leave a job. Once this was used in cases like CEOs or other high-ranked well-paid positions in research or marketing that would gave a leaving employee the possibility of doing serious damage by joining a competitor and sharing all secrets. Now, it appears that even jobs like store retail supervision are coming with these restrictions, so if you work for a national chain taking care of a team of clerks there, and you leave the company, you can't legally find another job for a year.

Another rampant issue is the way scheduling for hour workers has become. People earning minimum wages now get schedules just 2-3 days before actual work in many businesses, and they are expected to be available to work all the time. If they are lucky they clock a lot of hours, if not they are ignored on other shifts. And they might come as 2h in the morning, 3h (unpaid) interval, 4.5h in the afternoon, then next day 5h early evening... All of that in a minimum wage. In the relatively recent past at least low-paid jobs had some predictability in terms of schedule and thus income.

It must suck big time to have to survive in these conditions, compared to Europe.
I hadn't heard all that, and if that's true (and I'm not doubting you), your conclusion is valid as well. I just looked up Wikipedia's article on "annual leave" and was stunned to read that about 25% of US workers* don't get any. That's not good. It needs to change, and I wouldn't hold my breath on that in the current political climate. But it's still inaccurate to say Americans don't get vacation, or paid time off. The vast majority do; it just hasn't become a legal entitlement.

Apparently a law that would require paid vacation was proposed in Congress last year. Presumably it didn't get anywhere. There's also a public-pressure factor: The worst employers (the ones who cut their employees' hours to avoid having to provide health benefits, for example) often find themselves on the receiving end of boycott campaigns, local governments refusing to do business with them, and so on. But it's not enough.

*I wonder how many of those 25% are full-time, though.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Last edited by Penn's Woods; October 31st, 2014 at 04:05 PM.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 04:02 PM   #28393
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The logic comes from the patrozining policies of decades past (it is not something exclusive to Italy btw, though it was embraced full-force there). There was a time when unions were very patronizing towards workers, thinking of them not only as a weaker link a labor relation, but also kinda dumb and unable to make decisions for themselves. So these "controlled perks" like extra money that could only be used for food (and not 'wasted' on booze or entertainment) were enacted. There was a sexist element to it as well: it was unfair that women (who mostly didn't work) had to deal with scarcity of food in the home with the kids while the husband mismanaged his salary - so they said.

So government enacted certain tax breaks for these sorts of activities. When the economy boomed, even though affording basic food ceased to be a major problem for the employed, the practice stayed. And it stays to this day. It is a sort of thing nobody involved on it has to gain, politically, from trying to scrap and just integrate on normal salary.
Are these meal tickets (or whatever Spinoza called them...I'm too lazy to look back) issued by the employer or the government? I mean, does the actual piece of paper say "Fiat" or "Repubblica Italiana" on it? If the merchant who accepts them just needs to submit them to the government for reimbursement or a tax break, that's less of a headache (and less of a validity question) than dealing with a bunch of employers.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 04:07 PM   #28394
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Are these meal tickets (or whatever Spinoza called them...I'm too lazy to look back) issued by the employer or the government? I mean, does the actual piece of paper say "Fiat" or "Repubblica Italiana" on it? If the merchant who accepts them just needs to submit them to the government for reimbursement or a tax break, that's less of a headache (and less of a validity question) than dealing with a bunch of employers.
In Italian they're called "buoni pasto", literally "meal coupons". They're issued by private companies. Mine say "Qui Ticket" (the company issuing them) and "INRiM" (my workplace).


Italian wikipedia explains how they work, but I still didn't understand a thing.

Quote:
Le società emittenti i buoni pasto stipulano un contratto di fornitura con le aziende (clienti) e un contratto di convenzionamento con i pubblici esercizi (affiliati) i quali prevedono degli sconti sul valore nominale (o facciale) del buono pasto. Le aziende distribuiscono i buoni ai dipendenti, che spendono i buoni nella rete dei locali affiliati. Gli affiliati a loro volta rispediscono i buoni incassati alle società emettitrici. Queste rimborsano agli affiliati il valore dei buoni, meno la percentuale di sconto definita nel contratto di convenzionamento.

Il guadagno della società emettitrice è composto:

dalla differenza fra quanto pagato dalle aziende clienti e quanto rimborsato ai locali più il ristorno dell'IVA, esistendo un differenziale di IVA
dalla gestione finanziaria della liquidità che si genera nello sfasamento temporale tra l'acquisto dei buoni pasto da parte delle Aziende/PA che li assegnano ai propri dipendenti, e il pagamento degli esercenti che hanno fornito il pasto
dal valore dei buoni scaduti (quindi comprati da un'azienda cliente ma mai utilizzati)
da altre voci eventuali quali i "servizi aggiuntivi" forniti agli esercenti (servizi tecnici, amministrativi, ecc...)
These companies make a profit in reimbursing less to the restaurants and supermarkets than they get from companies using their tickets for their workers...
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 04:25 PM   #28395
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2154

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I hadn't heard all that, and if that's true (and I'm not doubting you), your conclusion is valid as well. I just looked up Wikipedia's article on "annual leave" and was stunned to read that about 25% of US workers* don't get any. That's not good. It needs to change, and I wouldn't hold my breath on that in the current political climate. But it's still inaccurate to say Americans don't get vacation, or paid time off. The vast majority do; it just hasn't become a legal entitlement.

Apparently a law that would require paid vacation was proposed in Congress last year. Presumably it didn't get anywhere. There's also a public-pressure factor: The worst employers (the ones who cut their employees' hours to avoid having to provide health benefits, for example) often find themselves on the receiving end of boycott campaigns, local governments refusing to do business with them, and so on. But it's not enough.

*I wonder how many of those 25% are full-time, though.
Quote:
In all countries many employers offer, usually as a result of collective agreements, public holiday entitlements over and above statutory inima. However, our report emphasizes the important role that govern-ment standards play in guaranteeing paid time off. In the absence of government standards in the United States, almost one in four workers there has no paid leave and no paid public holidays at all. According to U.S. government survey data, the average worker in the U.S. private sector receives only about nine days of paid leave and about six paid public holidays per year, substantially less than the minimum legal standard set in the rest of world's rich economies excluding Japan (which guarantees only 10 paid-leave days and requires no paid public holidays).
http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/...o_Holidays.pdf

Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 04:49 PM   #28396
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779


So what are you trying to say? You quote what I say, you quote a text, and then you put up a graph with a big fat zero sitting at the end of it?

There is a big, big difference between what I'm telling you is typical and what the text you quote is saying, and that zero. That zero is bullshit, at least in context (at a very minimum, they'd need to change the label on the graph, because it ISN'T a true representation of "paid annual leave and paid public holidays" that people in fact get), but it's what most Europeans retain as The Truth About America. If only because most Europeans (being human) would just look at the graph and not bother to read the text.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Kanadzie liked this post

Last edited by Penn's Woods; October 31st, 2014 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Toned down. :-/
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 04:58 PM   #28397
Jasper90
Unità
 
Jasper90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Amsterdam/Venezia
Posts: 8,978
Likes (Received): 12128

I sometimes see beggars, here in Milan, with a handwritten piece of paper saying "I'm hungry, please give me money or meal coupons"
__________________
Venice | The city explained by a Venetian

Please visit my thread, and feel free to ask any question :) don't forget to subscribe!
Jasper90 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 05:00 PM   #28398
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Beggars? In Europe? How is that possible?!

But at least they get paid vacation....
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Jasper90, Road_UK liked this post
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 05:09 PM   #28399
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post

So what are you trying to say? You quote what I say, you quote a text, and then you put up a graph with a big fat zero sitting at the end of it?
I had the impression he agreed with what you said.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2014, 05:11 PM   #28400
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I wouldn't want the month-long blocks of vacation which I have the impression are common in Europe...I wouldn't know what to do with myself. Much rather have shorter breaks more often.
It's mostly a southern European thing. Nearly the entire economy comes to a standstill (except tourism of course) during August.

The Dutch school holidays are spread out over 3 regions in the summer, so much of the country keeps functioning, albeit on a lower pace, during July and August. It is common in the construction sector to shut the business down entirely for 3 weeks, but more and more businesses remain open compared to 20 years ago.

I also prefer multiple short vacations over a summer-long vacation. I did two major trips this year, to Norway and Sweden in June and to southern France in September. Usually I take 3 or 4 international multi-day trips, but had to cut down a bit this year,I bought a new car, plus the 2 trips were rather expensive in tolls. I think I paid a combined € 400 in tolls this year.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Penn's Woods liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium