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Old November 5th, 2014, 07:13 PM   #28541
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Sounds unusual that Yugoslavia had lower GDP than most of the Eastern block countries, but had higher living standard. IMF loans did it...
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Old November 5th, 2014, 07:26 PM   #28542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
gdp/capita in Europe from 1950-1990.

Showing how in 1950 differences were relatively small, and the impact of Marshall plan and free market against the USSR politics


http://dev3.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/1/16...erry_Klein.pdf
Greetings from the outlier. :-)
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Old November 5th, 2014, 07:32 PM   #28543
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've read Germany has a major problem with its grid, to get energy produced in the north to southern consumers.
Yeah, it frequently pushes the limits of the Polish and Czech power grid when it is windy in North Germany and Denmark. Too much of the electricity has to flow through the Czech Republic then to either South Germany or Austria which creates instability.

It is not so easy to block that energy once its flows. The Poles, I think, have already started building it, it is a sort of switch. The Czechs were not yet finished with it.

It is a special kind of transformer - a phase shifter.

The point is that Germans don't want to bear the costs of creating this instability. Poles were able to get them to some agreement, the Czechs did not have this luck, but I read that it in fact did not really work anyway. So it seems that only a real thread of closing the flow will make them do anything about it. Therefore those phase shifters need to be built. The Germans are not happy about it, but they installed the same phase shifters on its western borders... I think that the Dutch have also built similar transformers.


The costs of those PST would be some € 100 mil for the Czechs and should be working in 2017.

Germans are currently busy with connecting their north and south networks though. It comprises some 2800 kms of power grid worth € 10 bil.

http://www.elektrina.cz/invazi-zelen...cesku-i-polsku


http://ceskapozice.lidovky.cz/cesko-..._pozice_127342
http://ceskapozice.lidovky.cz/nemeck...3_pozice_89081
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Old November 5th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #28544
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That's would be too fragile against any possible security slip ups like getting hacked or a power buildup plus who's going to support such a infrastructure....
It is the only way to rely heavily on renewables... There is a huge potential for a combination of plenty of solar plants on the Mediterranean + wind plants on Northern Europe + geothermal in Scandinavia/Iceland/Scotland, but this needs a grids to carry energy around.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 10:40 PM   #28545
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It is the only way to rely heavily on renewables... There is a huge potential for a combination of plenty of solar plants on the Mediterranean + wind plants on Northern Europe + geothermal in Scandinavia/Iceland/Scotland, but this needs a grids to carry energy around.
It will probably happen when we will runout of oil. Hopefully we will turn towards renewables instead of nuclear.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old November 5th, 2014, 10:46 PM   #28546
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Electric car made by Primary school students

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Old November 5th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #28547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Yeah, it frequently pushes the limits of the Polish and Czech power grid when it is windy in North Germany and Denmark. Too much of the electricity has to flow through the Czech Republic then to either South Germany or Austria which creates instability.
Wait, so the Northern and Southern parts of the German electric grid are only connected via the Czech Republic? Or is it that the current connections don't have enough capacity to carry the electricity to the South?
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:07 AM   #28548
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I've read Germany has a major problem with its grid, to get energy produced in the north to southern consumers.
Yes. And the Bavarian government protests agains constructing new electric wires. They close nuclear plants, do not want to have wires from the North Sea, but of course they would like to have electricity.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:08 AM   #28549
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It is not so easy to block that energy once its flows. The Poles, I think, have already started building it, it is a sort of switch. The Czechs were not yet finished with it.

It is a special kind of transformer - a phase shifter.
There is one built quite recently in Slovenia for 50 million euro to help with problems because of large electricity import into Italy from SE Europe. It has positive effect on the electricity networks in whole Alpine region. It has the largest phase angle in the world - 40° - if anyone can understand that
It was first transported over railway (heaviest load up to now - on a special railcar with 32 axles) - twice for two parts

and then on the road on that special vehicle:

Photo and movie source: http://www.vlaki.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5887
There are not many of them in Europe but their number is increasing as more electricity is traded over internal borders.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:14 AM   #28550
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An automobile catalogue of TUZEX company (providing the purchase of western European products in Czechoslovakia) from 1988.

Please note the English was pretty much rare in Czechoslovakia before 1989







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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:55 AM   #28551
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Yes. And the Bavarian government protests agains constructing new electric wires. They close nuclear plants, do not want to have wires from the North Sea, but of course they would like to have electricity.
Something like the Austrians .

Anyway, the nuclear filter is still there: http://www.nucleostop.de/. Well this one was a satire, but still there were people that tried to order it.

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Old November 6th, 2014, 01:01 AM   #28552
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Originally Posted by keber View Post
There is one built quite recently in Slovenia for 50 million euro to help with problems because of large electricity import into Italy from SE Europe. It has positive effect on the electricity networks in whole Alpine region. It has the largest phase angle in the world - 40° - if anyone can understand that
It was first transported over railway (heaviest load up to now - on a special railcar with 32 axles) - twice for two parts


Photo and movie source: http://www.vlaki.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5887
There are not many of them in Europe but their number is increasing as more electricity is traded over internal borders.
I am trying to create a Power grids, Oil pipelines, Gas pipelines, Water management, Communication grids, section on the infrastructure forum. If it gets enough support it could get opened. If you want to support it, I started a thread about it here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1772697

I think it is interesting topic, it is quite to the point these days (as energy discussions become more and more relevant), so worth a dedicated section in the infrastructure forum.

Anyone feeling like supporting such section? Go here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1772697

Last edited by Surel; November 6th, 2014 at 01:20 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 01:15 AM   #28553
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Wait, so the Northern and Southern parts of the German electric grid are only connected via the Czech Republic? Or is it that the current connections don't have enough capacity to carry the electricity to the South?
It doesn't have enough capacity to handle the peak times, when the photovoltaic or the wind turbines kick in.

Germany did not build the grid as a one country, so the connection between West and East Germany is not that good, which effects the current North-South connection within Germany.

The capacity between Germany and the Czech Republic on the other side is quite good, at the peak hours, almost 50 % of the additional capacity can go through CZ.

They are not sure if there can be an actual danger of black out just because of the German electricity, but in the peak times there is almost no reserve capacity left in the Czech network. So if there would be emergency in the Czech network, there is no capacity and the network could collapse in the south east.

The record was 3.5 GW flowing across Czech borders in 2012 with total flow between North Germany and Austria 7.3 GW. That is power output of the 7th world biggest power plant, or 3,5 outputs of the Hoover damn.

There are many pumped-storage damns in Austria and Switzerland, so the electricity from the wind turbines and solar panels can be stored there as potential energy of the water. But it has to get there first.
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Last edited by Surel; November 6th, 2014 at 01:24 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #28554
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The Chelsea supporter in the office is not happy with Slovenia, or at least Slovenian clubs. I'm just sayin'.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 12:35 AM   #28555
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Do you guys know what is this for:https://www.google.rs/maps/@59.13097...yRV9WcELDw!2e0 ?
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Old November 7th, 2014, 12:57 AM   #28556
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Geez, I've just had like 5 different wines, I'm so fuking drunk. The last one said "teasing wine", so I'm not surprised, OMFG...
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take a ride on slovenian highways

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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:09 AM   #28557
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Its possible to get drunk from wine?
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #28558
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Yes ,but pretty rediculous.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:48 AM   #28559
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Wait, I've had blueberry liqueur as well.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:49 AM   #28560
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oh, slivovice!
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