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Old November 18th, 2014, 12:01 AM   #28961
Attus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigic View Post
So the internet tax was just a temporary cover up to distract people from the corruption scandal?
Many people think so, but I don't. I think the internet tax was a huge mistake of Fidesz and Orbán. They seriously failed with their expectations. What worked with banks and phone providers, did not work with internet service providers.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 02:58 AM   #28962
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
MSN Messenger. Myspace. Netlog. Regular e-mail. Those were used in the internet dark age.
I still remember Myspace looking like this:
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Old November 18th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #28963
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LOL I remember using USENET
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Old November 18th, 2014, 03:15 AM   #28964
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How bout porn site then? Still as low tech (basic)
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Old November 18th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #28965
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Very common and spread method.

We have free of charge train travelling for students to 26 and elderly people over 65 since today. Applicants have to ask for special travelling card and before journey, they have to purchase a 0,00 € ticket. :nuts
People in economic productive age are really p***ed off. Our railway company even rented the old discarded cars from Czech railways.

Btw. free rail travelling in Slovakia is applied to all people within EU28. So, if you fulfil the conditions, you are welcome.

The taxes raise is left unnoticed.
We already did it 20 years ago

And as I have read it Slovakia is going to reduce gas bills as well

p.s.: I've heard it from my Argentinian friend that when there is a scandal growing there or something like that, the government suddenly brings up the Falkland/Malvinas issue.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 12:55 PM   #28966
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And in Serbia celebrity scandals are often used for covering up things.

Послато са ZTE Blade Q Mini уз помоћ Тапатока
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:48 PM   #28967
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
We have free of charge train travelling for students to 26 and elderly people over 65 since today. Applicants have to ask for special travelling card and before journey, they have to purchase a 0,00 € ticket. :nuts
People in economic productive age are really p***ed off. Our railway company even rented the old discarded cars from Czech railways.

Btw. free rail travelling in Slovakia is applied to all people within EU28. So, if you fulfil the conditions, you are welcome.
It doesn't apply to the IC/EC trains though. The additional costs are estimated at some € 13 mln.

In fact, it would not make that much difference for most of the subsidized PT if it was free of charge. The subsidies are most of the time around 50 % to 80 % anyway. There are cities where the PT is free of charge and their numbers are increasing.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #28968
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The problem with creating free inter-city transportation schemes is that it creates political hot-potatoes nobody wants to address later.

We have an example of that in Netherlands: college/technical students get free country-wide transportation, either during weekdays or weekends/vacations/holidays - they choose which.*

Students now form a substantial part of intercity public transportation demand, especially some regional buses that are slow enough that only them use the buses that often.

As a result of 2 decades of such policies, a whole set of arrangements and entitlements grew around that. For instance, many students commute long distances (50, 60km) daily to colleges and universities. Less student housing was built as a result. Employers of students often count on their ability to travel for free to hire interns without even spending with transportation.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 04:14 PM   #28969
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May I ask a question to our Spanish forumers?

Next March I have to go to a conference in Tortosa (Tarragona), and I was wondering which airport is best connected with that city, Barcelona or Valencia. Are there direct trains to Tortosa from either city?

Last edited by g.spinoza; November 18th, 2014 at 04:44 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #28970
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from bcn
EXPRES 18093
09.33 11.49 2 h. 16 min.
from vlc
R. EXPRES 14020
08.15 11.02 2 h. 47 min. REGIONAL 14302
14.45 17.36 2 h. 51 min. R. EXPRES 14016
20.05 22.35 2 h. 30 min.

renfe.es
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Old November 18th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #28971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
It doesn't apply to the IC/EC trains though. The additional costs are estimated at some € 13 mln.

In fact, it would not make that much difference for most of the subsidized PT if it was free of charge. The subsidies are most of the time around 50 % to 80 % anyway. There are cities where the PT is free of charge and their numbers are increasing.
Unprofitable public transportation is well known fact. But I don't like the way free railway transportation work (in Slovakia). The current system will expel all paying customers out of trains and the railways will become even more unprofitable eventually.

The government is in serious trouble (lost several important mayors in recent communal elections) and they want to hide it behind this topic.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 08:55 PM   #28972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The problem with creating free inter-city transportation schemes is that it creates political hot-potatoes nobody wants to address later.

We have an example of that in Netherlands: college/technical students get free country-wide transportation, either during weekdays or weekends/vacations/holidays - they choose which.*

Students now form a substantial part of intercity public transportation demand, especially some regional buses that are slow enough that only them use the buses that often.

As a result of 2 decades of such policies, a whole set of arrangements and entitlements grew around that. For instance, many students commute long distances (50, 60km) daily to colleges and universities. Less student housing was built as a result. Employers of students often count on their ability to travel for free to hire interns without even spending with transportation.
The best option IMHO is giving free or highly discounted PT tickets only to students from low-income faimilies.
In Italy students from low-income families are already granted discounts on university tax, university canteen fee and have the right to stay at public student dormitories, that are off-limits to those with a higher family income*. The same subside can apply to PT too.

* There have been episodes of students moving their official residence to their grandparents who live on a low retirement wage in order to meet the low-income requirement and abuse the subside system.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old November 18th, 2014, 09:47 PM   #28973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The problem with creating free inter-city transportation schemes is that it creates political hot-potatoes nobody wants to address later.

We have an example of that in Netherlands: college/technical students get free country-wide transportation, either during weekdays or weekends/vacations/holidays - they choose which.*

Students now form a substantial part of intercity public transportation demand, especially some regional buses that are slow enough that only them use the buses that often.

As a result of 2 decades of such policies, a whole set of arrangements and entitlements grew around that. For instance, many students commute long distances (50, 60km) daily to colleges and universities. Less student housing was built as a result. Employers of students often count on their ability to travel for free to hire interns without even spending with transportation.
True, but the road infrastructure in the Netherlands is also "free" of charge and paid by taxes. It is always not the best way to internalize all the costs, especially when you create public good.

You could look at the problem of the OV card (it is being scrapped, isn't it?) with the welfare analysis. Maybe all these commuting students increase the welfare much more than the possible savings if the taxes were lowered and they had to pay it themselves. Imagine introducing a km tolled motorways and decrease the taxes in the Netherlands, would you say that it is a better solution?
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Old November 18th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #28974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
True, but the road infrastructure in the Netherlands is also "free" of charge and paid by taxes. It is always not the best way to internalize all the costs, especially when you create public good.
The difference is that in the Netherlands you pay specific taxes to use roads that greatly exceed the expenditure on roads. That is not the case with public transport, which costs 60% of the transportation budget but carries 10% of traffic. Roads in the Netherlands are not free, they are paid for indirectly by motorists. Public transport is paid for by everyone, including the 90% that doesn't use it.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:04 PM   #28975
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One could argue that those who don't actually use public transportation still benefit from it insofar as all those people on trains and buses aren't taking up space with their cars on the roads and city streets and in parking lots.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:13 PM   #28976
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That effect is pretty minimal, as shown by several studies in the Netherlands. Most public transport users are not using it by choice, but out of necessity, and most new public transport infrastructure users is induced demand, not a modal shift.

Just today I noticed this blatant piece of misinformation on the MTO website that suggest one bus equals 40 cars less on the road, as if every bus passenger would have otherwise been a single occupant car, which is absolute nonsense.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #28977
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Future Norwegian minimalistic passports:

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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:43 PM   #28978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Just today I noticed this blatant piece of misinformation on the MTO website that suggest one bus equals 40 cars less on the road, as if every bus passenger would have otherwise been a single occupant car, which is absolute nonsense.
Not in a single trip, but maybe over an entire day...
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #28979
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How many of those 40 people are using the bus to get to jobs beyond walking distance and therefore would be collecting public benefits if the bus didn't exist? I'm not saying this would be true of all 40, but surely some of them....
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:59 PM   #28980
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