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Old December 5th, 2014, 07:39 PM   #29221
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmala...ge_of_the_term
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Old December 5th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #29222
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Linguistically is perfectly correct. Marmalade: citrus, jam: anything else. Also my English teacher at high school used to say that.
There are many accounts of food changing names because of the EU rules after CZ entered.

On one side, it is understandable, those in the club set the club rules. On the other, it is all quite a nonsense.

Yet, the biggest farce is that I can see many times, that those in the club don't keep to the rules themselves.


I personally consider much more important than the name of a product the composition and the place of origin. With some basic products and product names, the composition could be set, nothing against that I guess, although it can lead to confusing and unnecessary problems, but hey, it is good enough solution and people will get used to the new names. But the place of origin protected names is one big bullshit I would say.

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Linguistically is perfectly correct. Marmalade: citrus, jam: anything else. Also my English teacher at high school used to say that.
In English. And English is not the only language around there in the EU.

So when I say in Czech marmeláda or džem and the difference in the meaning in the Czech language is in the consistence of the product and not in the composition of the product, it is idiotic when someone forces something else on me, because in English it is something else.
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Old December 5th, 2014, 08:46 PM   #29223
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
On one side, it is understandable, those in the club set the club rules. On the other, it is all quite a nonsense.
EU should be more respectful towards local traditions and differences. It should limit itself to basic legislation, like concerning safety, hygiene, environmental respect,...
Changing names that are consolidated in the respective countries, who speak their respective languages and have their respecive traditions is IMHO plain wrong. It doesn't matter the name, it should matter only the quality of the product. Fighting over brand names is as stupid as the dispute between Greece and Macedonia about the name of the latter.
Some stupid regulations issued by the EU contribute to increase the anti-EU sentiment across the union.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old December 5th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #29224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Linguistically is perfectly correct. Marmalade: citrus, jam: anything else. Also my English teacher at high school used to say that.
I associate "marmalade" specifically with orange, in fact. How that came about, I don't know.

EDIT: But I see Verso looked it up.
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Old December 5th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #29225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Linguistically is perfectly correct. Marmalade: citrus, jam: anything else. Also my English teacher at high school used to say that.
but why is that so? why would orange marmalade be different than raspberry one?
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Old December 5th, 2014, 09:54 PM   #29226
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See Verso's Wiki article. Top of this page. (But basically, because "marmalade" comes from the name of one type of fruit in Portuguese....)

By the way, just to complicate matters, jam and jelly don't mean quite the same thing in British and American English. :-)
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Old December 5th, 2014, 09:59 PM   #29227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post


In English. And English is not the only language around there in the EU.

So when I say in Czech marmeláda or džem and the difference in the meaning in the Czech language is in the consistence of the product and not in the composition of the product, it is idiotic when someone forces something else on me, because in English it is something else.
exactly!
here in HR marmelada is smooth fruit preserve without visible particles of fruit. džem is fruit preserve with visible particles of fruits. there is also third thing - pekmez. it is usually considered as fruit preserve with miced, but visible parts of fruits (while in džem particles are larger, frutis are not minced)
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Old December 5th, 2014, 10:01 PM   #29228
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See Verso's Wiki article. Top of this page. (But basically, because "marmalade" comes from the name of one type of fruit in Portuguese....)

By the way, just to complicate matters, jam and jelly don't mean quite the same thing in British and American English. :-)
yes. and that fruit has absolutely nothing with citrus fruits explain that, Einstein!
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Old December 5th, 2014, 10:03 PM   #29229
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I don't have to. :-P
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Old December 5th, 2014, 10:44 PM   #29230
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What about povidlo or powidl (in Austrian German)? It is plum jam. The translator responds with "filled bubo".
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Old December 5th, 2014, 11:50 PM   #29231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
EU should be more respectful towards local traditions and differences. It should limit itself to basic legislation, like concerning safety, hygiene, environmental respect,...
Changing names that are consolidated in the respective countries, who speak their respective languages and have their respecive traditions is IMHO plain wrong. It doesn't matter the name, it should matter only the quality of the product. Fighting over brand names is as stupid as the dispute between Greece and Macedonia about the name of the latter.
Some stupid regulations issued by the EU contribute to increase the anti-EU sentiment across the union.
I could sign that.
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Old December 5th, 2014, 11:58 PM   #29232
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What about povidlo or powidl (in Austrian German)? It is plum jam. The translator responds with "filled bubo".
I wonder when someone would register povidla in the EU. There must certainly be someone around all the countries, that makes the same stuff and calls it otherwise.... And when we speak about povidla. What about frgál. Anyway. Valašský frgál is registered already . Dunno, whether Slovaks can now call their frgál frgál .
http://www.rozhlas.cz/zpravy/regiony...azeni--1286122



https://www.google.nl/search?q=frg%C...G&ved=0CC4QsAQ
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Old December 6th, 2014, 12:08 AM   #29233
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I wonder when someone would register povidla in the EU. There must certainly be someone around all the countries, that makes the same stuff and calls it otherwise....

Anyway. Valašský frgál is registered already . Dunno, whether Slovaks can now call their frgál frgál .
http://www.rozhlas.cz/zpravy/regiony...azeni--1286122



https://www.google.nl/search?q=frg%C...G&ved=0CC4QsAQ
Well, to be honest I have not thought over the difference between frgál and moravský koláčik here (Moravian little cake). But I like it, that is the most important

There are many other products from Central Europe to be preserved. E.g. Langoš or Gugelhupf (Babovka). But now it is really hard to track the origin. It is just Austro-Hungarian legacy.
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Old December 6th, 2014, 12:34 AM   #29234
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I could sign that.
On the other side, don´t dare the americans sell Budweiser under this name in the EU.*




*that pesky little island is not counted in anymore .
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Old December 6th, 2014, 12:34 AM   #29235
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Well, is it the end of 'marmolada', which I know from my childhood and which have never had anything in common with citrus fruits, then?

By the way, I checked wikipedia for 'konfitura' (French 'confiture', Russian 'Конфитюр') and thanks to god almighty it does not translate to English and probably isn't known in Anglo-Saxon world, so I dare to presume, it is going to survive in the shape and taste as I and my predecessors know and hopefully ancestors will experience it unchanged, too.
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Old December 6th, 2014, 12:52 AM   #29236
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On the other side, don´t dare the americans sell Budweiser under this name in the EU.*




*that pesky little island is not counted in anymore .
Okay, have I correctly understood the issue here? The EU doesn't want various Eastern European countries to use words in their own languages that look like the English "marmalade" but have a different (or broader) meaning?

I agree with you all that that's ridiculous and out of line. (Being ridiculous and out of line is a bit of an EU specialty, as far as I can see...maybe they can put an AOC on it.) But I don't see how it's Americans' fault.
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Old December 6th, 2014, 02:27 AM   #29237
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The marmalade issue is back. @Cosmin time for a status change?
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Old December 6th, 2014, 03:16 AM   #29238
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Okay, have I correctly understood the issue here? The EU doesn't want various Eastern European countries to use words in their own languages that look like the English "marmalade" but have a different (or broader) meaning?

I agree with you all that that's ridiculous and out of line. (Being ridiculous and out of line is a bit of an EU specialty, as far as I can see...maybe they can put an AOC on it.) But I don't see how it's Americans' fault.
The EU has various policies that protect the food producers.

It is either name connected to the place of origin. E.g. Champagne, Parmesan etc. (here we talk about one concrete product, i.e. you can have multiple cheese that taste and look like Parmesan, but they will be sold as cheese of the parma type or something like that).

Or it is connected to some technique used in its making. I can't think of an example.

Or it is defined by the composition. Here we define the composition of such food labeled under this name. E.g. butter, or marmalade.

Due to the language variety and national products you can come across products that are not allowed to use that specified name because it doesn't have the specified composition. There are of course exemption but the whole process is quite vague. Yes, the countries that enter the club later can come with exemptions, but as you would guess, if you enter the club later, you can't be really expecting to be rewriting it's rules too much.

So yes, you are allowed to sell peanut butter, while using the name butter, even if it doesn't have anything to do with butter. But you are not allowed to use the word "máslo" in Czech, which means butter, for a spread product that could be translated as a butter spread that has some 40-50 years of history.

With marmelade it is around the same problem. Just a citrus based jams can be labeled marmalade, because that's what it means in English, while this is not so in other languages.

Now what does this all have to do with American and Budweiser.

The Czech brewery Budweiser has claimed the protection of origin for this beer, using the abbreviation Bud to prevent the US Budweiser to sell its beer on the EU market under this label. This means that Budw. can't use this name in the EU. However, in the UK, they have some special ruling, which I don't understand how it can the EU allow, both companies can use this name (but maybe it goes about the whole name Budweiser there, I am not sure).
http://www.law360.com/articles/93579...emark-eu-court

It is actually quite complicated legal process that goes on around many countries all around the world for already maybe 100 years, so this place of origin protection is just small drop in it, but I thought it could be a nice joke on myself .
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Old December 6th, 2014, 07:15 AM   #29239
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And here we see a wild bus drinking from the river.

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Old December 6th, 2014, 01:14 PM   #29240
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Greetings from Arizona. I said I was going to the far West, isn't it?
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