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Old February 11th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #30521
Penn's Woods
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Because the European Freaking Union's deciding* it would be nice to have the Ukraine as a sort-of-member had nothing to do with it.

I'll leave it to Europeans to decide whether you speak for most of them. But if you think the average American or even most American policy-makers could give a f--- about who controls Donetsk or any other Eastern European hellhole, you've got a typically Eurocentric exaggerated sense of your own importance.

But we've had this conversation before. I'm over it. If you idiots do start another "World" (European) War, please leave us out of it this time.

(See, Road? This is what I was talking about.)

*subsidized by the U.S. insofar as we're paying way more than our share for NATO and I don't see what the hell we get out of it. Other than risking our lives for things that don't affect us.
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Old February 11th, 2015, 10:03 PM   #30522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
...European Freaking Union's deciding
This should be in grammar textbooks as the typical example of oxymoron
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Old February 11th, 2015, 10:22 PM   #30523
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Old February 11th, 2015, 11:06 PM   #30524
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Quote:
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This should be in grammar textbooks as the typical example of oxymoron
Perhaps, but I don't think 'freaking' should be capitalised though.
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Old February 11th, 2015, 11:10 PM   #30525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Because the European Freaking Union's deciding* it would be nice to have the Ukraine as a sort-of-member had nothing to do with it.

I'll leave it to Europeans to decide whether you speak for most of them. But if you think the average American or even most American policy-makers could give a f--- about who controls Donetsk or any other Eastern European hellhole, you've got a typically Eurocentric exaggerated sense of your own importance.

But we've had this conversation before. I'm over it. If you idiots do start another "World" (European) War, please leave us out of it this time.

(See, Road? This is what I was talking about.)

*subsidized by the U.S. insofar as we're paying way more than our share for NATO and I don't see what the hell we get out of it. Other than risking our lives for things that don't affect us.
Sorry man, the US has much more to do with what happened in Ukraine than any European country excluding Ukraine and Russia. So as much about talking about starting a war...

So please if the Americans want a war with Russia. Please have it in America and Asia and leave Europe out of it.

Anyway, it was CNN who put it there, so you should direct your anger there if you don't agree with what is says.
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Old February 11th, 2015, 11:15 PM   #30526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
If you idiots do start another "World" (European) War, please leave us out of it this time.
An American pointing at others for starting wars.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 12:51 AM   #30527
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Only a European who thinks the history of the world began in 1946 could say that.

(Particularly one from that nice, peaceful corner of Europe between Vienna and Istanbul. Seriously. Hypocrisy much? In fact, 1946 is way too early for you.)
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Old February 12th, 2015, 12:59 AM   #30528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Only a European who thinks the history of the world began in 1946 could say that.
It's kind of more important what's happening in the present than what happened 70 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
(Particularly one from that nice, peaceful corner of Europe between Vienna and Istanbul. Seriously. Hypocrisy much? In fact, 1946 is way too early for you.)
Care to elaborate? Who have we attacked since 1946?
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Old February 12th, 2015, 01:21 AM   #30529
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In 3 ... 2 ... 1 ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
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Old February 12th, 2015, 05:30 AM   #30530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Sorry man, the US has much more to do with what happened in Ukraine than any European country excluding Ukraine and Russia. So as much about talking about starting a war...

So please if the Americans want a war with Russia. Please have it in America and Asia and leave Europe out of it.

Anyway, it was CNN who put it there, so you should direct your anger there if you don't agree with what is says.
I'm with Penn's on this. Most of us are just ordinary citizens anyway who have no impact on what is happening in countries far away, apart from you perhaps: a Czech immigrant living in Holland and spreading pro-Kremlin propaganda all over the place as if there was no tomorrow.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 05:32 AM   #30531
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It's kind of more important what's happening in the present than what happened 70 years ago.

Care to elaborate? Who have we attacked since 1946?
Stop talking we. You are just a citizen as well, and you know full well that your region has disrupted peace and stabilty in Europe back in the 90's. But it's not your fault personally.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 06:53 AM   #30532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Sorry man, the US has much more to do with what happened in Ukraine than any European country excluding Ukraine and Russia. So as much about talking about starting a war...

So please if the Americans want a war with Russia. Please have it in America and Asia and leave Europe out of it.

Anyway, it was CNN who put it there, so you should direct your anger there if you don't agree with what is says.
I've already said what I think of CNN. And you said you agreed with them and that most Europeans did, so don't tell me to direct my response away from you. But, as succinctly as possible, describing the forces in question as "pro-U.S.," even if it were true, disregards that they are primarily forces defending the democratically elected government of their own country on its own soil.

Obama has ruled out time and time again a war with Russia, even a "military confrontation" with Russia or a "proxy war" with Russia. And to all appearances, Russia/the Ukraine is less important to the administration than the Middle East. If you or anyone else says "the Americans" want a war with Russia you're either not paying attention, lying, or assuming he's lying. You'd also be assuming he's insane, because a war with Russia would be insane. (By the way, what's getting attention here today is ISIS and domestic stories.) And as far as leaving Europe out of a war with Russia - forgive me for going back in time again, but we wouldn't be in a position of rivalry with Russia if we hadn't had to come in and help the British clean up the last European mess.

And if you don't think the Ukraine's rapprochement with the EU (which led, in the space of about three months, to Putin threatening them, the Ukraine backing off, Merkel et al. yelling at them, Maidan protesters waving THE EU'S flag, then that mess in Kiev, the president fleeing to Russia and finally Putin playing with troops) indicates that western Europe (that "any European country" of yours is cute...) has a major share of responsibility for this, then you're - again - not paying attention, or lying.

I'm glad, though, you recognize that Russia has something to do with this. I wasn't clear you grasped that....
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; February 12th, 2015 at 07:00 AM.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 08:45 AM   #30533
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Let's go back to Slavic languages. This discussion leads nowhere. We can't change anything. Sad but true.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 09:13 AM   #30534
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Saying that the US has the responsibility for the crisis in Ukraine, and saying no word about the responsibility of Germany, is simply crazy.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 10:08 AM   #30535
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Quote:
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Saying that the US has the responsibility for the crisis in Ukraine, and saying no word about the responsibility of Germany, is simply crazy.
Is Germany a synecdoche (= a part for all, like England for UK) for EU in this context?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 10:17 AM   #30536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
It's kind of more important what's happening in the present than what happened 70 years ago.
It's the same argument used in the struggle between the West and the Muslim world. Some people argue that present-day Muslim terrorism and jihad is comparable to the Cruisades in the 13th century. However, it's a really forced comparison, because after 800 years Europe reached civilization, while other parts of the world are still stuck in the Dark Age.
We all agree that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were the most terrible dictators ever, in terms of people killed, but, again, this doesn't excuse present-day third world dictators, that even if they killed way less people, they remain dictators.
If Europeans murdered each other in 1914-1918, 1939-1945 and, in a corner of the continent, also in 1991-1999, it's not an excuse for Arabs, Russians, Americans or any other to support conflicts.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 11:45 AM   #30537
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Quote:
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And if you don't think the Ukraine's rapprochement with the EU has a major share of responsibility for this, then you're - again - not paying attention, or lying.
Nope, I am just thiking about how the US has "brokered" power transition in Ukraine in which it has "fu..cked" the EU. Using the exact words of US administraition.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #30538
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Old February 12th, 2015, 02:53 PM   #30539
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After reviewing the France road atlas I bought yesterday, it seems French Guiana is now independent (Along with Martinique, Guadeloupe, Reunion and Mayotte) as no overseas department appears in it. OTOH, the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernesey and Aurigny a.k.a. Alderney) are included in the atlas so they are now French .
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Old February 12th, 2015, 03:33 PM   #30540
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Quote:
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Stop talking we. You are just a citizen as well, and you know full well that your region has disrupted peace and stabilty in Europe back in the 90's. But it's not your fault personally.
Well, Penn's Woods said "you idiots", so... And I don't live between Vienna and Istanbul.
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