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Old June 15th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #31881
italystf
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Here it's the map of motorways that has TUTOR currently:
https://www.autostrade.it/controllo-...velocita/tutor
Probably around half of the network has it.
However this map is very poorly made and some motorways are missing and it's not clear if they have TUTOR or not.
EDIT: It was just installed on A16. http://www.ilmattino.it/AVELLINO/a16.../1409112.shtml
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:30 AM   #31882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Ubiquitous? In Autostrade per l'Italia stretches, maybe. Try A7, or A21 near Brescia: they're racetracks.
As they should be. It's ITALY
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Old June 16th, 2015, 01:31 AM   #31883
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TUTOR is a good safety enforcement technology. Much better than static speed traps on highways.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 10:31 PM   #31884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
No, it's "Otto-Normalverbraucher" (Otto common consumer). "average Joe" would be "durchschnittlicher Josef" or "durchschnittlicher Sepp". "Sepp" sounds similar to "Depp" which means "fool", "dork", "moron", "shmoe", "douchebag",... which would be suitable too

Sorry for OT.
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
do they say ,,durschnittser Hans" in D?

But surely this can be easy-fix, just don't let them use certain social services (e.g. anything that pays money) until, say been established in country for 24, 48 or 60 months

heck I would be surprised if they even let these people claim such money, don't they have no paperworks? I think if you jumped the fence into USA and then asked for welfare and gave Mexican passport, they would deport you
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Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post


Sorry, more OT: In Sweden he's still called Medel-Svensson (Average Svensson). In Norway, he's Ola Nordmann, which I find marginally more interesting. "Ola" is, of course, a traditional Norwegian name, and "Nordmann" means Norwegian. However, Norman(n) is also a fairly common surname...
He's called Zé Povinho in Portugal, more of a personification of Portugal though.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 10:45 PM   #31885
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In Italian we use "Mario Rossi", as Mario is a very common Italian male first name, and Rossi a very common surname.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 10:57 PM   #31886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
He's called Zé Povinho in Portugal, more of a personification of Portugal though.
I don't think so. There are two different kind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_Joe, e.g. Average Joe (US), Otto Normalverbraucher (DE), Mario Rossi (IT) or Manuel Dos Santos (PT)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_personification, e.g. Uncle Sam (US), Deutscher Michel (DE), Italia Turrita (IT) or Zé Povinho (PT)
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old June 16th, 2015, 11:06 PM   #31887
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The best article I've ever seen on wikipedia I've never known that Average Joe has so many friends/identities.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 11:21 PM   #31888
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Once a friend of many mistook Uncle Tom for Uncle Sam and some American classmates were not happy about that at all.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 12:27 AM   #31889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I don't think so. There are two different kind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_Joe, e.g. Average Joe (US), Otto Normalverbraucher (DE), Mario Rossi (IT) or Manuel Dos Santos (PT)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_personification, e.g. Uncle Sam (US), Deutscher Michel (DE), Italia Turrita (IT) or Zé Povinho (PT)
Zé Povinho is used in that way too I think, I have heard people call other people Zé Povinho in the sense that they think the person is too average and mediocre.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 01:54 AM   #31890
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They were even offering licence plates with red band and German font
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:33 AM   #31891
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It happened at least of couple of times that someone got arrested after showing an, obviously fake, "Free Territory of Trieste" ID to police officers.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 08:43 PM   #31892
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I would not like to bring up some politics, but Europe is pretty much screwed up these days:
- Hungry Putin with new weapons,
- US with weapons in Eastern EU
- Brexit
- Grexit
- Immigrants and (possibly) the collapse of Schengen
- Unrest in Macedonia

Best time to look up some plan B in New Zealand or Australia.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #31893
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Let's go to Canada. They have plenty of space.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 10:04 PM   #31894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I would not like to bring up some politics, but Europe is pretty much screwed up these days:
- Hungry Putin with new weapons,
- US with weapons in Eastern EU
- Brexit
- Grexit
- Immigrants and (possibly) the collapse of Schengen
- Unrest in Macedonia

Best time to look up some plan B in New Zealand or Australia.
The weapons of US in estern Europe are nothing. The biggest threat from US is TAFTA, then Europe will be completly destroyed and will serve the only interest of US, we will have to forget many of our laws who protects us like in food, agriculture for example...

But this brings us to the most important point about Europe. It doesn't meant to enhance life of the UE citizens, EU was only about business and created for the need of big corporations (even Schengen)... so TAFTA is just the step foward....

Despite some improvments dues to Europe, peoples in Europe (especially in western Europe) probably can't see in what Europe belongs to them and think now that they could be in a better situation without Euro or even further, without Europe!


I personaly consider that Europe brings me some opportunities (maybe even more), but I understand the peoples who stayed in their countries and haven't see in what they are supposed to live better... also I feel sad to see that big corporations own our countries through Europe and almost dictate their own laws...
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Old June 17th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #31895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Let's go to Canada. They have plenty of space.
Québec is a great place to live!
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Old June 17th, 2015, 10:23 PM   #31896
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The weapons of US in estern Europe are nothing. The biggest threat from US is TAFTA, then Europe will be completly destroyed and will serve the only interest of US, we will have to forget many of our laws who protects us like in food, agriculture for example...

But this brings us to the most important point about Europe. It doesn't meant to enhance life of the UE citizens, EU was only about business and created for the need of big corporations (even Schengen)... so TAFTA is just the step foward....

Despite some improvments dues to Europe, peoples in Europe (especially in western Europe) probably can't see in what Europe belongs to them and think now that they could be in a better situation without Euro or even further, without Europe!


I personaly consider that Europe brings me some opportunities (maybe even more), but I understand the peoples who stayed in their countries and haven't see in what they are supposed to live better... also I feel sad to see that big corporations own our countries through Europe and almost dictate their own laws...
I always wonder these nationalistic urges for trivial things like regulations

Example, food-safety laws US vs EU
There are many people in USA and they all eat food, and there is no problem
There are many people in EU and they all eat food, and there are no problems.

or automobile safety standards, there are differences. But...
In EU people drive cars to ECE standard and there are no issues
in USA people drive cars to FMVSS standards and there are no issues

Except - if you are from Europe and want to move to USA, can you take your car? Illegal, doesn't meet regulations !

Clearly both regulatory regimes are preventing danger to public and are reasonably effective. It isn't like we are saying, replace EU regulations with Ugandan regulations

In short, it seems Europeans all complaining about TTIP because evil American corporations will steal all the jobs and poison the food supply with Coca-Cola
And Americans are all complaining about TTIP because evil European corporations will steal all the jobs and poison the food supply with menacing materials like French wine (I ignore Austrian wine that is poison )

It seems, to take a broad view of the situation that both arguments are political and essentially BS and we can sleep well instead
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:01 PM   #31897
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I think EU is perfect project, but... the current politicians are bad. We always hear things like: "be transparent!", "be democratic!", "be politically correct". But the fun fact is, the EU itselft is neither transparent nor democratic.

Look at the arrangement. Most of power is held by representatives who are not directly elected. I think there should be employed a referendum in some questions. It is not, or if yes, the circumstances are really disputable (referendums repeating until the "right" answer is not achieved). I also don't like the overly political correctness.

In US: If a burglar is killed by owner of a house he intended to robe, the owner is considered brave.

In EU: the owner is being sued and given even higher punishment than the burglar would have been given. And we are not talking about the possibility the burglar was different race, nationality or religiosity.

These are things I hate. Why is not EU as much simplier as it could be? EU elections seems to be extremely unpopular and in the last elections, only radical losers made it to parliament. Why not to join EU elections with national (e.g. portion of national government will take over EU PM competences)? It is extremely stupid to have different forces in EU and on national level. It has nothing to do with democracy, it is just undesirable consequence of low turnout.

It is shame. Sometimes I have feeling the responsible politicians do everything to make Europe a worse place.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:43 PM   #31898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I always wonder these nationalistic urges for trivial things like regulations

Example, food-safety laws US vs EU
There are many people in USA and they all eat food, and there is no problem
There are many people in EU and they all eat food, and there are no problems.
And whe are all living "in the best of possible worlds"

There is no problems because you choose to not see them.

For example GMOs like they are everywhere in the US are a big safety problem for us, this is why most of our countries are still prohibit them from been cultivated in Europe, which I believe is great as long as we still don't know what are the long term effect of these GMOs on our organism and on the biodiversity. But whe know that most of these GMOs are resistant to weedkiller and increases their use....

Same concern about hormone raised beef and chicken treated with chlorine which could be harmfull for us and forbiden for this reason, at the opposite of the US who allow the food industrials companies to do such things without beeing sure of their real impact...

And when you see the weight of such companies like Monsanto and all the US chemical, agricultural or food companies, I don't see how a standardization of the rules could go in our European point of view, they will surely allow companies to do almost whatever they want! This is the same about majors topics such pesticides, they will change our regulations on this topic too, so we could use more of them...

So no, I don't share your point of view on this point!



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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
or automobile safety standards, there are differences. But...
In EU people drive cars to ECE standard and there are no issues
in USA people drive cars to FMVSS standards and there are no issues

Except - if you are from Europe and want to move to USA, can you take your car? Illegal, doesn't meet regulations !

Clearly both regulatory regimes are preventing danger to public and are reasonably effective. It isn't like we are saying, replace EU regulations with Ugandan regulations

In short, it seems Europeans all complaining about TTIP because evil American corporations will steal all the jobs and poison the food supply with Coca-Cola
And Americans are all complaining about TTIP because evil European corporations will steal all the jobs and poison the food supply with menacing materials like French wine (I ignore Austrian wine that is poison )

It seems, to take a broad view of the situation that both arguments are political and essentially BS and we can sleep well instead
For car safety, I don't know this precise topic, so I have nothing to say about it...

But about car, in the last years, EU put much pressure on car manufacturers to lower the CO2 emissions of their cars so we could drive more environmental-friendly cars as we must make efforts against global warming. Obviously most of the US states don't share this point of view...

So in this situation what choice they could make?


You're right, there is no need to be feared on such point like jobs....


And one last point. If TAFTA is such a good thing for every people of our countries, why all the talks EU and US are having now are totaly secret and all the documents about TAFTA are well kept in secured places and nobody is allowed to take notes about them. Not a great example of transparency, right?

But I'm still thinking that you have a very candid point of view, for example, I consider (due to the history and news) that politics don't always takes the best solution for their peoples, sometimes they have bigger considerations like what big companies what to do to make more money/to increase their power... This is not a fiction, it's just reality as it is when we choose to not close our eyes...
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Last edited by winnipeg; June 17th, 2015 at 11:55 PM.
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Old June 18th, 2015, 12:17 AM   #31899
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Haha, I love Voltaire, even though I'm from the few arpents of snow

I think GMO issue is overblown in Europe, there isn't any logic behind. Anyhow, we know the long-term effects, in America we've been eating that 20 - 30 years already and no problem
If there was some scientific logic behind the fear, e.g. a particular GMO which causes the vegetable to have large quantity of chemical X and chemical X is carcinogenic, ah it makes sense.
But most GMO is just adding some anti-bug feature from another edible plant to some other edible plant, so that the farmer doesn't need to spray so much pesticide.

US states actually have been very aggressive on car emissions. Especially on exhaust pollution (generally always much stricter than Europe, but now very similar) and they control CO2 also (via fuel-economy rules). But the US norm for CO2 isn't so hard as the European (less crazy IMO )
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Old June 18th, 2015, 01:58 AM   #31900
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I don't know why there should even exist GMO in the first place. people have been eating normal plants for years and there were no problems with that.
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