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Old September 9th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #32561
volodaaaa
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Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
I wonder the same.

Also, it's now Hungary in Hungarian and Magyarország in English?
I would also like to visit the City of Russia to the north of Poland.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 05:32 PM   #32562
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Originally Posted by KøbenhavnK View Post
The highway between Germany and Denmark is closed at the moment. Hundreds of immigrants including small kids are walking to Sweden- a very long walk.

Danish police have to register them as asylum seekers in Denmark or return them to Germany. But they refuse to get registered. Everybody wants to go to Sweden.

In the East of the country there are three trains full of immigrants that refuse to leave the trains. They want to go to Sweden. Train service between Germany and Denmark is halted. At least for today.

This really sucks. Couldn't they just take a ferry from Germany to Sweden when they don't want to stay in Denmark anyway?

But of course they've traveled all the way across Europe and not a single country has taken the rules seriously and registered them- so no wonder they can't understand what's suddenly happening.
I literally don't understand those migrants. They spent thousands of Euros to get to Europe in illegal way. What prevents them to buy an air ticket and travel legally. It would cost less, the risk would be smaller, the impact negligible.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 05:43 PM   #32563
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I literally don't understand those migrants. They spent thousands of Euros to get to Europe in illegal way. What prevents them to buy an air ticket and travel legally. It would cost less, the risk would be smaller, the impact negligible.
visa?
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Old September 9th, 2015, 06:31 PM   #32564
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I literally don't understand those migrants. They spent thousands of Euros to get to Europe in illegal way. What prevents them to buy an air ticket and travel legally. It would cost less, the risk would be smaller, the impact negligible.
Syrians, Libyan, Eritreans, Afghans (the nationalities that now comprise around 80% of total flow by land or sea since 2014) need a visa to enter Schengen space (or UK/Ireland for that matter).

I read some are now going through circuitous routes via the Norwegian-Russian border. Apparently the Finnish-Russian border is very hard to cross, but not so the Norwegian-Russian.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #32565
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I literally don't understand those migrants. They spent thousands of Euros to get to Europe in illegal way. What prevents them to buy an air ticket and travel legally. It would cost less, the risk would be smaller, the impact negligible.
If no visa then no flight. The airlines pay penalty for every passenger they carry without proper documents.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 07:13 PM   #32566
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Syrians, Libyan, Eritreans, Afghans (the nationalities that now comprise around 80% of total flow by land or sea since 2014) need a visa to enter Schengen space (or UK/Ireland for that matter).

I read some are now going through circuitous routes via the Norwegian-Russian border. Apparently the Finnish-Russian border is very hard to cross, but not so the Norwegian-Russian.
I guess that also getting illegally into Russia before heading to Norway isn't that easy, right? And reaching the N-RUS border means travelling for hundreds of kilometers across the desolated tundra, that will become very hard in a couple of months from now, when temperatures in that area fall down to 30 or 40 Celsius degrees below zero.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 08:37 PM   #32567
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I guess that also getting illegally into Russia before heading to Norway isn't that easy, right? And reaching the N-RUS border means travelling for hundreds of kilometers across the desolated tundra, that will become very hard in a couple of months from now, when temperatures in that area fall down to 30 or 40 Celsius degrees below zero.
No need to wait for months. The first snow typically falls by the end of September. That will make walking virtually impossible. The area is challenging even during the summertime.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 09:53 PM   #32568
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haha, as soon as winter comes they will run back to italy at least
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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:12 PM   #32569
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:32 PM   #32570
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No need to wait for months. The first snow typically falls by the end of September. That will make walking virtually impossible. The area is challenging even during the summertime.
Russian polar winter and muddy terrain don't forgive. Ask Napoleon or Hitler.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:37 PM   #32571
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Originally Posted by KøbenhavnK View Post
The highway between Germany and Denmark is closed at the moment. Hundreds of immigrants including small kids are walking to Sweden- a very long walk.

Danish police have to register them as asylum seekers in Denmark or return them to Germany. But they refuse to get registered. Everybody wants to go to Sweden.

In the East of the country there are three trains full of immigrants that refuse to leave the trains. They want to go to Sweden. Train service between Germany and Denmark is halted. At least for today.

This really sucks. Couldn't they just take a ferry from Germany to Sweden when they don't want to stay in Denmark anyway?
Yes, this whole exodus has taken biblical proportions.

Why wont they take the 4h ferry from Sassnitz to Trelleborg? Rödby-Puttgarden is not much cheaper. Besides this I think it's about time to close the serbian/hungarian border otherwise this stream of refugees will never end.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:57 PM   #32572
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Yes, this whole exodus has taken biblical proportions.

Why wont they take the 4h ferry from Sassnitz to Trelleborg? Rödby-Puttgarden is not much cheaper. Besides this I think it's about time to close the serbian/hungarian border otherwise this stream of refugees will never end.
I don't see the point of closing border crossing completely. Just stop every vehicle, if they have the right papers let them go, otherwise turn them back (and eventually start an asylum procedure, if they are entitled). Closing borders causes serious disruption to trade and tourism within Europe. The Serbian-Hungarian border is already well protected with the new fence, there are more vulnerable entry points in Schengen area.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 10th, 2015, 07:41 AM   #32573
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Russian polar winter and muddy terrain don't forgive. Ask Napoleon or Hitler.
The wilderness area close to the N/RUS border is not muddy but full of boulders, small lakes and rivers. Very good maps, clothing and equipment are needed to survive. Very experienced hikers may be able to walk 15-20 kilometers a day in such areas.

These two pictures are from Finland close to the FIN/N/RUS tripoint. They give some impression about the challenge:





Then most the N/RUS border runs on a wide (and cold) river, except at the power plants. The area is strategic to Russia due to nickel mines and factories. Most probably strictly no access.

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Old September 11th, 2015, 03:33 AM   #32574
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If no visa then no flight. The airlines pay penalty for every passenger they carry without proper documents.
It's more complicated than that. Technically, refugees can travel via air without visa. BUT, if their claim for asylum is rejected, airlines pay the return trip.

So far, no airline wants to take the risk.
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Old September 11th, 2015, 10:11 AM   #32575
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Originally Posted by KøbenhavnK View Post

This really sucks. Couldn't they just take a ferry from Germany to Sweden when they don't want to stay in Denmark anyway?
http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/fly...aa-til-sverige

Now they do.
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Old September 11th, 2015, 01:06 PM   #32576
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It's more complicated than that. Technically, refugees can travel via air without visa. BUT, if their claim for asylum is rejected, airlines pay the return trip.

So far, no airline wants to take the risk.
The return trip is about a no-cost implication to the airline if the delayed entry takes place immediately at the arrival unless the return flight is full booked.

The beef lies in the penalties. Most countries charge the airlines if they fail the check the travel documents at the station of departure. The fines are high: typically up to several thousand euros per person. And they may apply whether the arriving persons claim an asylum or not.

The return trip may turn expensive if escorts are needed. Recently, the Finnish authorities reported that 50 asylum seekers from Albania returned to Tirana on a charter flight, were escorted by 54 policemen. (In this case, the bill was payed by the Finnish tax payers. The Albanians arrived mainly on intra-Schengen flights from Athens. Thus, the system leaks.)
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Old September 11th, 2015, 01:37 PM   #32577
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The return trip is about a no-cost implication to the airline if the delayed entry takes place immediately at the arrival unless the return flight is full booked.

The beef lies in the penalties. Most countries charge the airlines if they fail the check the travel documents at the station of departure. The fines are high: typically up to several thousand euros per person. And they may apply whether the arriving persons claim an asylum or not.

The return trip may turn expensive if escorts are needed. Recently, the Finnish authorities reported that 50 asylum seekers from Albania returned to Tirana on a charter flight, were escorted by 54 policemen. (In this case, the bill was payed by the Finnish tax payers. The Albanians arrived mainly on intra-Schengen flights from Athens. Thus, the system leaks.)
Albanian asylum seekers? There isn't any war, guerilla or prosecution in that country since 1997!
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 11th, 2015, 01:53 PM   #32578
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Albanian asylum seekers? There isn't any war, guerilla or prosecution in that country since 1997!
Yes. All applications have been rejected during this year.

It is organized. Someone sells one-way tickets for a holiday and advertises that the naive country of Finland pays the return trip, and gives some pocket money.

The attractiveness of this sort of holidays has been declining, because of many of those ones to be returned are accommodated in jail-class premises in the middle of nothing (which, BTW, are ex-jails):

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Old September 11th, 2015, 01:57 PM   #32579
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Albanian asylum seekers? There isn't any war, guerilla or prosecution in that country since 1997!
Coming from Sweden I can seek asylum in any country I want even though there is no war here since 1809.
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Old September 11th, 2015, 02:09 PM   #32580
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Coming from Sweden I can seek asylum in any country I want even though there is no war here since 1809.
Yes but 9,5 million Swedes.
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