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Old December 13th, 2015, 08:07 PM   #33001
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I'm told that I'd use my last U.S. address even if it's one I no longer have a right to occupy...i.e. my last rental now occupied by someone else.)
I know a US guy who lives in Germany for 14 years now. He's still US citizen (and he would never change it). His last US address was in Ohio, so his vote for the presidental election counts for Ohio. IIRC correct, it's also because his driver license was issued in Ohio or there's his Ohio address on the driver license card!?
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Old December 13th, 2015, 08:11 PM   #33002
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ups, really? then i gave wrong info. it really doesn't have anything with citizenship?
No. I am a citizen of Hungary and have a German license. You can apply for a license in the member state you live in and you may not be restricted to do it any way (some minor restrictions are possible, e.g. you must live for at least 90 days in that country).
And any EU drivers license is valid with no restrictions in every EU member nations.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #33003
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I know a US guy who lives in Germany for 14 years now. He's still US citizen (and he would never change it). His last US address was in Ohio, so his vote for the presidental election counts for Ohio. IIRC correct, it's also because his driver license was issued in Ohio or there's his Ohio address on the driver license card!?
It depends on the last address, is my understanding. But not only does his Presidential vote count in Ohio, he'd vote for Ohio's Senators, he'd vote for the House as if he still lived in that district, he'd vote for the Ohio legislature.... Everything he could vote for if he lived at that address, he still can. I guess he gets an "absentee ballot" - which you fill out and mail in - from the voter-registration authorities in that county.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 08:25 PM   #33004
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EDIT 2: But that hypothetical student can't vote BOTH at the university and back home, because that would give him or her two votes in Federal elections.
If you have the citizenship of multiple EU countries, you have full rights as far as national politics is concerned in every country you are a citizen of.

The residency in an EU country gives you right to vote and run in the EU elections in that given EU country. So I could chose whether I want to vote in the NL or CZ. You are not allowed to vote twice in the EU elections (although the countries have different ways how to treat the non residents nationals and resident non nationals, which creates loopholes).

The residency should give you possibility to vote and run in the local elections.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 08:31 PM   #33005
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I'm guessing it still takes some time and effort, maybe years of residence, for an EU citizen who intends to stay permanently in another EU country to actually establish citizenship?
EU does not have general rules about national citizenships, so all member states are free to have their own ones, wich in fact differ heavily.
Some nations (e.g. Slovakia) definitely forbid to have another citizenship, so if a Slovak citizen want to apply for citizenship in any other country, s/he must lay down the Slovak one. Other nations (e.g. Hungary or Germany) have no limitations about having multiple citizenships (I mean that of EU member states).
The preconditions of applying for citizenship, too, are very different in EU member states. Here in Germany 8 years of residence and fluent (but not necesserily flawless) German is needed beside of some other terms.

However having a citizenship is not needed at all. Citizens of other member states may not be discriminated in any way except for national elections. We can even participate in local elections in the town we are resident in. I, a native Hungarian, have been living in Germany for three years, I rent a flat (and will rent another one in January), have a car, and I did not have any difficulties of not having the local citizenship. The only restrcition was that I could not participate in national elections.

In eastern part of the EU it causes sometimes heavy debates. For example in Hungary public transport is free for everyone in an age of 65 or more. This law was made for subsidizing Hungarian old people that have a very low income of course, but is (and must be) automatically valid for Swedish and Danish tourist, too, if they are at least 65 years old so Hungarian tax payers subsidize Swedish tourists that have 5 times more income than they.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #33006
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Just an info for Penn's to make things more complicated.

In almost all EU countries (I think aside from UK), there's the ID card. You can't get national citizen ID card from another different EU country.

You can however get an different ID card after you comply with the requirements for the permanent resident (under all the different national definitions), mostly after 5 years of uninterrupted residence.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 12:52 PM   #33007
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How romantic. A marriage proposal on a Houston freeway.

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Old December 16th, 2015, 04:20 PM   #33008
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Do you vote in the Czech Republic, the Netherlands or both? (Is "both" even an option?)
EU citizens can vote in local elections if they live in a foreign country. Implementation varies a lot, here in the Netherlands, where all population is officially registered to a specific address, they automatically send voting materials for EU citizens like me. In other countries, registration is a messier affair and voting as EU citizens has some extra hurdles.

There is no national voting right for EU-foreigners, and for a variety of reasons, it is extremely unlikely EU would ever approve that (think of the effect in places like Luxembourg or the Baltic countries).

Each country has its own regulations concerning voting of absent-citizens. For some countries, voting from abroad is easier, for others, difficult (requires travel back to the country), and another group of EU countries outright do not allow non-resident citizens to keep voting in national elections after they've been away for a while.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 10:28 PM   #33009
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EU citizens can vote in local elections if they live in a foreign country. Implementation varies a lot, here in the Netherlands, where all population is officially registered to a specific address, they automatically send voting materials for EU citizens like me. In other countries, registration is a messier affair and voting as EU citizens has some extra hurdles.

There is no national voting right for EU-foreigners, and for a variety of reasons, it is extremely unlikely EU would ever approve that (think of the effect in places like Luxembourg or the Baltic countries).

Each country has its own regulations concerning voting of absent-citizens. For some countries, voting from abroad is easier, for others, difficult (requires travel back to the country), and another group of EU countries outright do not allow non-resident citizens to keep voting in national elections after they've been away for a while.
Baltic countries are a case of their own, since they have a sizeable percentage of residents that doesn't have the citizenship despite being living there for decades, just for ethnical\linguistic issues. The Russian minority in those countries is large enough to make them bilingual, like Belgium, but it wouldn't happen for obvious political reasons. EU usually condemns discriminations, but when the ethnicity that is discriminated is the Russians, it close an eye.
In the rest of EU, instead, non-citizen residents are almost all recent immigrants.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old December 16th, 2015, 10:35 PM   #33010
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Old December 16th, 2015, 11:41 PM   #33011
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UK don't issue identity cards anymore? Which document British people use for travelling to the Continent?
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Old December 16th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #33012
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In Juazeiro, Brazil (from Facebook feed, source unknown)

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Old December 17th, 2015, 10:08 AM   #33013
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Baltic countries are a case of their own, since they have a sizeable percentage of residents that doesn't have the citizenship despite being living there for decades, just for ethnical\linguistic issues. The Russian minority in those countries is large enough to make them bilingual, like Belgium, but it wouldn't happen for obvious political reasons. EU usually condemns discriminations, but when the ethnicity that is discriminated is the Russians, it close an eye.
In the rest of EU, instead, non-citizen residents are almost all recent immigrants.
Russians who didn't go back to Russia after 1989 are not EU citizens... Even if there were voting rights for non-citizen EU residents in national elections, they would not be affected. The status of Russian settles in Baltic countries is a complicated issue, they were not some generations-old population that had lived there for a long time, but politically (Kremlin)-friendly settlers brought there with explicit goal of changing local demographic balances, while local intellectuals and else were deported en masse to Far East Russia. Best solution would be for some other EU countries, far away from the region, to grant them some stateless refugee status and let them move there (France, UK, Italy... somewhere never occupied by Russia) if they want to.

I compare their situation to that of Turkish settlers in Northern Cyprus, brought there in large numbers so that in the event of any reunification, there would be a new demographic reality.

I'd also be very weary of granting Russian language an official status in the Baltic states (especially Lithuania and Latvia) because it would open the door for some other claims for the now weak political movement to grant Arabic, Hindi and Sawhali official status as minority languages in EU because there are a lot of people (recent immigrants) that speak them, something I definitively don't want to see happening on principle (recent immigration groups making their home native languages official in EU because there are too many of them living in Europe). I've read more than once some activists claiming that it is unfair Estonian is an official EU language but Arabic isn't when there are 10-20x as much Arabic speakers in EU than Estonians.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 10:29 AM   #33014
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UK don't issue identity cards anymore? Which document British people use for travelling to the Continent?

Passport. Which, unlike an ID card, we don't have to carry about with us when in Britain.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #33015
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We often need to show our passports when getting a job though (or our birth certificate with another proof of address or something).

One time I went to re-register for my job (the place I worked then closed for a few months in the winter) and I realised I had forgotten my passport, but I then realised I had my Portuguese ID card in my wallet, that was a relief.

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It depends on the last address, is my understanding. But not only does his Presidential vote count in Ohio, he'd vote for Ohio's Senators, he'd vote for the House as if he still lived in that district, he'd vote for the Ohio legislature.... Everything he could vote for if he lived at that address, he still can. I guess he gets an "absentee ballot" - which you fill out and mail in - from the voter-registration authorities in that county.
I once knew someone who was an American citizen (dual with British) because his father had an American citizen of after emigrating there (from Australia I think!) as a youngster. Anyway, his father's last address was in Ohio as well, and he also voted in the last presidential election as if he lived in Ohio, despite never actually living there.

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; December 17th, 2015 at 02:49 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 07:18 PM   #33016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Baltic countries are a case of their own, since they have a sizeable percentage of residents that doesn't have the citizenship despite being living there for decades, just for ethnical\linguistic issues. The Russian minority in those countries is large enough to make them bilingual, like Belgium, but it wouldn't happen for obvious political reasons. EU usually condemns discriminations, but when the ethnicity that is discriminated is the Russians, it close an eye.
In the rest of EU, instead, non-citizen residents are almost all recent immigrants.
If I moved to Germany and lived there for 30 years, nobody would just give me a German citizenship. I would have to meet the required conditions and apply for citizenship. I'm pretty sure knowing the language is part of those conditions.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 09:27 PM   #33017
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If I moved to Germany and lived there for 30 years, nobody would just give me a German citizenship. I would have to meet the required conditions and apply for citizenship. I'm pretty sure knowing the language is part of those conditions.
However, those people did not leave their country...
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Old December 17th, 2015, 09:30 PM   #33018
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Russians who didn't go back to Russia after 1989 are not EU citizens... Even if there were voting rights for non-citizen EU residents in national elections, they would not be affected. The status of Russian settles in Baltic countries is a complicated issue, they were not some generations-old population that had lived there for a long time, but politically (Kremlin)-friendly settlers brought there with explicit goal of changing local demographic balances, while local intellectuals and else were deported en masse to Far East Russia. Best solution would be for some other EU countries, far away from the region, to grant them some stateless refugee status and let them move there (France, UK, Italy... somewhere never occupied by Russia) if they want to.

I compare their situation to that of Turkish settlers in Northern Cyprus, brought there in large numbers so that in the event of any reunification, there would be a new demographic reality.

I'd also be very weary of granting Russian language an official status in the Baltic states (especially Lithuania and Latvia) because it would open the door for some other claims for the now weak political movement to grant Arabic, Hindi and Sawhali official status as minority languages in EU because there are a lot of people (recent immigrants) that speak them, something I definitively don't want to see happening on principle (recent immigration groups making their home native languages official in EU because there are too many of them living in Europe). I've read more than once some activists claiming that it is unfair Estonian is an official EU language but Arabic isn't when there are 10-20x as much Arabic speakers in EU than Estonians.
Russians are natives and Russian language is native in the Baltic countries.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #33019
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If I moved to Germany and lived there for 30 years, nobody would just give me a German citizenship. I would have to meet the required conditions and apply for citizenship. I'm pretty sure knowing the language is part of those conditions.
Italy doesn't have conditions on the knowledge of Italian language for foreign residents who want to apply.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 11:20 PM   #33020
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Quote:
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I'm back. Selectively.

Re driver's licenses, we have to renew ours every few years (four years in Pennsylvania but I imagine that varies by state), but there's no retesting (at least in Pennsylvania). But, Surel, what I was wondering is does a Czech citizen living in the Netherlands have the option of getting a license in either country, or does he or she have to get a Dutch one?

PS: Road_UK sends his regards. :-)
I have that option, I am not sure, whether the Dutch living in CZ have that option, but I guess yes.

Any EU citizen registered in any EU country can apply for the renewal of the license in the country where he's registered. So if you register with the Dutch municipality, you are allowed that. The same holds in the Czech republic for other EU countries citizens. Once they register with the authorities there, they can apply for renewal and thus Czech driving license.

Now what you ask is bit different if I understand it. You want to know whether a EU citizen living in a different country can always go to apply for the renewal in the original home country. I think that in general as long as you stay a citizen of that country, it would have to take care of you, although it might show more complicated in some cases and you would perhaps need to go some non standard ways.

I can for sure get a Czech license if I go to the Czech authorities. I am not sure if any country has some residents only restrictions. I.e. if someone who is a resident in another EU country would not be able to renew his license in his original country because of not having the residence there anymore.

In the Czech republic, there's a concept of permanent residence such that even if you live abroad, you can be still a "permanent resident" of the Czech Republic (and in my case anyway, as I keep my Czech address as well, but aside from that, you can state your address to be a city hall in any case), unless you denounce it, but there's no requirement to denounce it. Maybe for the Dutch it would be different if they leave the Netherlands. As they would be required to de-register from the municipality. I am not sure what the Dutch authorities do when a Dutch person living abroad would come back to the Netherlands applying for the driving license. I don't think they could just walk in any city hall to make a claim, but I think, there must be ways in which they could do it. If anything, at least through an embassy.
Strange enough, the DUTCH authority RDW does not provide that option to the Dutch living abroad inside the EU. At least that's what I read.
https://www.rdw.nl/Particulier/Pagin...pese-Unie.aspx
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