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Old December 18th, 2015, 03:44 AM   #33021
Rebasepoiss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
However, those people did not leave their country...
Actually yes, they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Russians are natives and Russian language is native in the Baltic countries.
Well, not really. Estonia had a small native Russian population, much less than 10%. A large part of them lived in Petseri region which isn't even a part of Estonia anymore.

Besides, everybody who (or whose parents-grandparents etc) were born in Estonia before the Soviet occupation are eligible for an Estonian citizenship without any further conditions. So if you really are a 'native Russian' in Estonia you could get a citizenship anyway.

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Italy doesn't have conditions on the knowledge of Italian language for foreign residents who want to apply.
Yeah, it depends on the country but it is required in many places e.g. Russia.
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Old December 18th, 2015, 04:09 AM   #33022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Actually yes, they did.
No, they did not. No one moved out of his country, when moving within USSR. Then one day Estonia stripped them of their rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Well, not really. Estonia had a small native Russian population, much less than 10%. A large part of them lived in Petseri region which isn't even a part of Estonia anymore.
Estonia did not exist before the end of the WWI, Russia did.
And Russians lived in Russia. They were the natives there and they have been living there as an ethnicity, the same as the Estonians, as long as the Estonians up till now. With their culture, language, etc...
The Russian culture and language is native to Estonia, whether you like it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Besides, everybody who (or whose parents-grandparents etc) were born in Estonia before the Soviet occupation are eligible for an Estonian citizenship without any further conditions. So if you really are a 'native Russian' in Estonia you could get a citizenship anyway.
Every Soviet living in Estonia at the moment of the USSR breakup and keeping on living there is a native to Estonia. Also those of the Russian ethnicity that Estonia stripped of their rights.
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Old December 18th, 2015, 04:32 AM   #33023
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It is essentially true
Soviet system screwed around with people, more in the sense of deportations out of Baltics than more or less voluntary immigration of ethnic Russians
But already 20 years that shit is over, and the people are generally born on the land, they have a right to it.
It's not healthy for a country to be populated by non-citizens - the Baltics really need to do all possible to avoid any "Donetsk-faktor". I think generally just by people getting paid in hard currency, solves 90% of the problem. But... not all of it...
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Old December 18th, 2015, 09:18 AM   #33024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
It is essentially true
Soviet system screwed around with people, more in the sense of deportations out of Baltics than more or less voluntary immigration of ethnic Russians
But already 20 years that shit is over, and the people are generally born on the land, they have a right to it.
It's not healthy for a country to be populated by non-citizens - the Baltics really need to do all possible to avoid any "Donetsk-faktor". I think generally just by people getting paid in hard currency, solves 90% of the problem. But... not all of it...
I am the only one who thinks that well-handled Russians (replace with whatever minority nation in whatever country) are less dangerous than bad-handled Russians (the same as noted in previous parentheses)?

Ukraine is a good example. Donbass started in a moment, when strong anti-Russian government took power.

I remember one of the previous government in Slovakia consisting of Anti-Hungarian parties. It made strong political national tenses and voices calling for separatism from Hungarian representatives became stronger and stronger at the same time. It was creepy. Once the government has changed, situation went better and it seems Hungarians accept more to be citizens of Slovakia. The same goes for every minority (not only for Russians or Hungarians). Making these people foreigners is bad. Especially if we (Europe) are pretending everyone from Asia and Africa is welcome here. Sounds like a injustice to me. You know, people that were born here, have families, have friends are treated as foreigners while people who are culturally completely different are treated as future citizens.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 03:15 PM   #33025
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Today is the last Saturday before Christmas. Many companies in Europe have now closed for the winter holidays. In many countries from western Europe work immigrants from eastern Europe, so as almost everyone got holiday starting today, almost everyone is driving at the same time from western Europe to eastern Europe.

Last year I drove from Austria to Romania on the same day (last Saturday before Christmas). Instead of the usual 7-7.5 hours, I did about 12.5 hours (incl. 1-1.5 hours break). This was because of the huge amount of traffic on the motorway, everyone going from west to east. There were several accidents, long queues, sometimes I drove on smaller roads nearby the motorway etc. This year I chosed not to drive on this day, but I will try my chances tomorrow.

Here's how the traffic looks like in Austria and Hungary right now:



During an usual Saturday, the motorways here are usually free, so the entire map should be green. You can see that most problems are on the route from Germany (Passau) to Budapest, only in the direction going east.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 03:51 PM   #33026
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The best is driving by night. Few days ago I went from Arad to France without making any real break because it was going very well the only slow part I've got was at the romanian border (15 minutes of waiting for customs) and at the AT/DE border where there was a checkpoint where they were checking some cars (I waited around 5 minutes... but during the day, the wait would probably be much much more...).
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Old December 19th, 2015, 05:08 PM   #33027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
No, they did not. No one moved out of his country, when moving within USSR. Then one day Estonia stripped them of their rights.
They moved to Soviet occupied Estonia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Estonia did not exist before the end of the WWI, Russia did.
And Russians lived in Russia. They were the natives there and they have been living there as an ethnicity, the same as the Estonians, as long as the Estonians up till now. With their culture, language, etc...
Finland also didn't exist before WWI. Are you saying all Russians should have the right to a Finnish citizenship? It's historic Russian territory after all, right?

Yes, Russians lived in Estonia before WWI but very few of them and next to lake Peipus. They are Old Believers who escaped Russia from religious persecution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
The Russian culture and language is native to Estonia, whether you like it or not.
Russian culture is native to Estonia but German and Swedish cultures are also native to Estonia. Estonia was under the rule of many different countries and and all of those cultures have had an affect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Every Soviet living in Estonia at the moment of the USSR breakup and keeping on living there is a native to Estonia. Also those of the Russian ethnicity that Estonia stripped of their rights.
Estonia was occupied by the Soviet Union so everybody who moved here during the occupation is considered an immigrant. Everybody had the right to move back to their home country after Estonia regained independence and a lot of Russians did that. Estonia didn't strip anybody of their rights, that is just nonsense.
---------------------------
But that's that, I'm done with this topic. I don't usually argue about politics on the internet and I don't intend to change that, especially since you don't even seem to understand the USSR was an occupation in Estonia....
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Old December 20th, 2015, 01:52 AM   #33028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
They moved to Soviet occupied Estonia.
They moved within the Soviet Union and they stayed in Estonia after the Soviet Union broke up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Finland also didn't exist before WWI. Are you saying all Russians should have the right to a Finnish citizenship? It's historic Russian territory after all, right?
Those Russians living in Finland since Finland stopped being Russian territory, yes of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Yes, Russians lived in Estonia before WWI but very few of them and next to lake Peipus. They are Old Believers who escaped Russia from religious persecution.
In 1897 there's been about 5 % of Russian speaking in the province of Estonia according the the Russian census. In 1922 and 1934 there's been around 8 % of Russians in Estonia according to the Estonian census. Now there's about 25 % of Russian speaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Russian culture is native to Estonia but German and Swedish cultures are also native to Estonia. Estonia was under the rule of many different countries and and all of those cultures have had an affect.
There were 1.7 % Germans in Estonia and 0.7 % Swedes in Estonia in 1922. There were less then 0.6 % of Germans in the last 70 years in Estonia, and no Swedes and it was less then 0.3 % in the last 40 years. Their presence has been not continuous for more then 70 years and there is no presence as of now. I don't think that you can call them native to Estonia any-more. While the Russian population thrived in Estonia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Estonia was occupied by the Soviet Union so everybody who moved here during the occupation is considered an immigrant. Everybody had the right to move back to their home country after Estonia regained independence and a lot of Russians did that. Estonia didn't strip anybody of their rights, that is just nonsense.
---------------------------
But that's that, I'm done with this topic. I don't usually argue about politics on the internet and I don't intend to change that, especially since you don't even seem to understand the USSR was an occupation in Estonia....
I don't argue about what Estonia considered of considers to be immigrant. It is actually the whole point that Estonia considers those people's to be immigrants that is problematic.... I am talking about facts.
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Last edited by Surel; December 20th, 2015 at 01:58 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 10:26 AM   #33029
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Greetings from Komarno. Made an over night break here on my way home to Romania. Crazy traffic, accidents, fog. I drove for sure at least half of the way on national roads to avoid those huge traffic jams, Google maps helped with that. Still needed around 2.5 hours more than usual. I crossed at Braunau into Austria there were no controls and little traffic. Into Hungary I crossed through Nickelsdorf village and won some time. The first 2 rest stations into Hungary were completely paralysed.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 02:28 PM   #33030
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Greetings from Gyor, Hungary.

In order to avoid the high traffic values around Wien right now, I drove in Austria on S6, and then into Hungary at Sopron.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 02:42 PM   #33031
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anyone know what happened to the " guess the highway " thread?
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Old December 20th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #33032
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Here it is: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...72319&page=400
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Old December 20th, 2015, 02:58 PM   #33033
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My apartment complex had a fire today. One of the apartments had been used as an indoor marijuana grower "facility". Whomever was running it disabled and bypassed (illegally) some stuff on the service box, which then caught fire. Second fire in this building in 2 years.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 04:15 PM   #33034
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I was headed this morning to the largest shopping centre in Turin area, "Le Gru". I arrived there at 10.30 and there was already no parking and so many people trying to get in, that I immediately made a U turn ad went to another shopping centre.

At 13:00 "Le Gru" was closed and evacuated for a (false) bomb threat. I can't even begin to imagine how they evacuated all those people.
The "Mole Antonelliana", the symbol of Turin, was also closed and evacuated for another bomb threat...
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Old December 20th, 2015, 09:28 PM   #33035
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This post could probably fit in either the Unusual road signs or the Mileage signs: long distances, but I think it's too irrelevant for those threads.

A sign indicating the distance to Paris (955 km) in a narrow country lane in Valle de Mena (Castilla y León, Spain): https://goo.gl/maps/1H4NYuEnJKs

The sign is not official (Arial, "Km") and was placed somewhere between 2010 and 2014.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 07:35 PM   #33036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
The same goes for every minority (not only for Russians or Hungarians). Making these people foreigners is bad. Especially if we (Europe) are pretending everyone from Asia and Africa is welcome here. Sounds like a injustice to me. You know, people that were born here, have families, have friends are treated as foreigners while people who are culturally completely different are treated as future citizens.
Today's Europe (and at a larger extent the world) is completely going upside down . When local citizens have less rights than newly arrived immigrants, mostly illegaly. When these "refugees" are less "persecuted" than inhabitants that are here for centuries. When these people with a totally different cultural-religous-social backgroung receive a lot of welfare benefits and a housing, while the native homeless are sleeping on the streets ...

Sadly, it's only a question of time and number, when all these new "citizens" will claim their democratic right for "self-determination" to impose their undemocratic and barbarian rule and law over the land. Then it will be the end of Europe, or the start of a civil war .

Unfortunately, it's becoming really hard to understand today's situation in Europe - nothing is pragmatic, sensitive, thoughtful, and reasonable .
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 12:33 AM   #33037
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Has anyone tried these?

In Serbia they are often sold at gas stations and kiosks, in pharmacies etc.
I like them because of their unique intensive sour taste.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 12:14 PM   #33038
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Quote:
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Greetings from Komarno. Made an over night break here on my way home to Romania. Crazy traffic, accidents, fog. I drove for sure at least half of the way on national roads to avoid those huge traffic jams, Google maps helped with that. Still needed around 2.5 hours more than usual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Greetings from Gyor, Hungary.
In order to avoid the high traffic values around Wien right now, I drove in Austria on S6, and then into Hungary at Sopron.
In order to avoid that crazy traffic this year I decided to fly. And it has even been much cheaper. I have luck* that Eurowings/Germanwings have direct flights Cologne - Budapest for quite a low price.

* Actually it was not a luck, it was important for me three years ago when I moved to Germany, I refused some job offers because ogf the lack of airline connections. However I know if your parents live in a town far away of any airports, you have no chance for such an airline connection so actually I'm lucky having the family nearby Budapest.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 12:23 PM   #33039
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If I would fly the only option would be this one:
Driving to München airport: 2h45m
Check-in, waiting for the flight: 2h
Flying München - Timisoara with Lufthansa: 2h
Driving to Arad: 1h

Total: 7h45m with a cost of over 250 Euro x2 just for the flight tickets (plus fuel to/from airport, plus airport parking charge).

If I drive, it takes me about 7h with usual traffic, and about 110 Euro both ways in fuel costs. Plus that I am flexible, I can go and return whenever I want, and carry what I want in the car. And usually I am going with my wife and 2 other friends, so sharing the car on such a trip is a very cost effective way of getting from Austria to Romania.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 12:47 PM   #33040
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It's been 2 years since we last drove home. Since Wizzair opened the connection from Memmingen to Timisoara, we always took that flight. But this time we had also some more baggage and we thought to change it up a little, stop somewhere new on the way, make a little roadtrip.
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