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Old January 24th, 2016, 08:58 PM   #33381
winnipeg
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Quote:
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I still don't know how to produce a proper "oe" (as in "oeuf" or "oeuvre") unless I'm using my phone. The French Canadian layout - which is basically QWERTY with accents - at least makes it easier to capitalize accented characters (Ç, È, É...*); but I'm more used to the French and French-Belgian layouts when I'm writing in French. (They're both AZERTY, with some differences in where certain punctuation marks and the like can be found.)

When you're in Word or Excel, auto-correct fixes some of these, but not in a web browser like I am right now.

*I just switched my language setting to Canadian French to produce those, but I had to hunt for them. And switched back to English when I was done.
On internet the "œ" is not really necessary (I also don't know how to have it on keyboard ), by writing "oeuf" instead of "œuf", it doesn' really change anything, anyone understand what is the word

And about accented characters, they are also useless because in french it is gramaticaly correct to not put an accented character if the capital letter is on the first word on the begining of a sentence... So I also never used it, and probably I will never have to...

Yes, I know the differences...
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Old January 24th, 2016, 08:59 PM   #33382
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Though a lot of urban autoroute sections in France are actually very substandard, some even lower than many voie express. In fact there are even a few bridges along autoroutes with only one lane in each direction.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:02 PM   #33383
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Yes, usualy in France an "autoroute" is a motorway (2x2 or more), most of the time with tolls, and most of the times limited to 130km/h on normal day (110km/h when it is raining and around junctions and cities...) while a "voie express" is a 2x2 highway, but with lower safety equipment and/or a more sinuous path, it is limited at 110km/h and they are usualy free (the state made no motorway concession on it)... at least they are like that in eastern France...
But even a "voie express" is usually limited-access, isn't it? I mean no intersections at grade, no private driveways opening onto it? Is there a term that covers both autoroute and voie express? (The legend to the latest IGN road atlas refers to "voies à caractère autoroutier".)
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:06 PM   #33384
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Question: In France, is there any physical difference between "autoroute" and "voie express," or is a "voie express" just a freeway that's not numbered as part of the autoroute class? Either one is essentially a freeway/motorway, right? (And I don't think I've ever seen the term "voie express" used in francophone Belgium. Or Quebec for that matter.)

As for the Aston, how's it numbered? Does that lack of separation between the carriageways disqualify it from being a motorway or Ax(M)?
An undivided road like the Aston Expressway can never be a motorway in Europe. In some countries, the median barrier is required for 2nd class roads too (like Strada Extraurbana Principale, Voie Expresse, Hitra Cesta, High Quality Dual Carriaggeway, Autoweg), that have the same features and traffic restrictions of motorways but lower technical requirement (width, curve radius) and generally lower speed limit than motorways. Those roads are usually called expressways in English.
The only ambiguous case is Switzerland, where the A prefix, usually reserved to motorways (autobahn, autoroute, autostrada), is assigned to some 1+1 grade-separated roads too. However, despite the number, those roads aren't signed as motorways, but as "motor-vehicles only roads".
In Austria is the other way round. While the A prefix is generally used for motorways (autobahn) and the S prefix for expressways (schnellstrasse, that can be either 2+2 divided, 2+2 undivided or 1+1 undivided), there are some full standard motorways (usually the most recent ones), that have the S prefix. They are signed as motorways, have 130 speed limit unless different posted, but they're numbered as Sxy.
This can generate some mistakes on certain low-quality maps. I've seen 1+1 Swiss A roads drawed as motorways and 2+2 Austrian S motorways drawed as regular roads.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; January 24th, 2016 at 09:11 PM.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:09 PM   #33385
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But even a "voie express" is usually limited-access, isn't it? I mean no intersections at grade, no private driveways opening onto it? Is there a term that covers both autoroute and voie express? (The legend to the latest IGN road atlas refers to "voies à caractère autoroutier".)
Yes, exactly, this is a "road for cars" which means no tractors, bike, small motorbikes..., and yes, no intersections and no private driveway (it looks like an "autoroute" for this)...

Probably, I never heard it like this (I never use any IGN maps, with Google Maps and smartphones GPS they became useless... except maybe for hiking...), but it describes exactly what it is!
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:10 PM   #33386
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Though a lot of urban autoroute sections in France are actually very substandard, some even lower than many voie express. In fact there are even a few bridges along autoroutes with only one lane in each direction.
Some pre-1980s motorways in Italy, especially in mountanious areas (A10, A12, A7, A6, old A1, pre-reconstruction A3, and many raccordi autostradali), have lower standards than present-day expressways. However they remain motorways because they were built as such.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:24 PM   #33387
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I thought of the Gardiner after I posted. Thing is, both of those cities are also served by the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway. Was there a reason both terms were used in the same area?
Montreal has the Decarie Expressway, Bonaventure Expessway and Ville-Marie Expressway, all of which are freeway
Even the federal government signs it as such https://www.google.pl/maps/@45.47515...8i6656!6m1!1e1

But it's only the Metropolitan Boulevard

Thinking about it I can't imagine "expressway" referring to a real freeway that isn't inside a central part of a city...
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Last edited by Kanadzie; January 24th, 2016 at 09:29 PM.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 12:20 AM   #33388
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I've modified my Italian keyboard to accommodate for some letters which are impossible to write with the standard one. For instance, it's impossible to capitalize accented letters, which is not a problem unless for "è" ("is"), since it can go at the beginning of a sentence: "È buono" ("It's good"). I think the Italian keyboard should be modified: it makes no sense having "ç" and "§" in it, which is not used in Italian, and not being able to capitalize "è". ‰ serves no purpose, you can just use %.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 12:38 AM   #33389
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The lack of È is the worst aspect of the Italian keyboard. Many people replace it with E', but it isn't correct.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 25th, 2016, 12:44 AM   #33390
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In Romanian we have şţăâî ŞŢĂÂÎ and they are all very easy to write using Romanian keyboard. I don't really use them though in casual writing, native speakers understand everything without those accents. Also I almost always use the English keyboard, I also bought one for work, had to buy it from Romania, since you almost can't find any in Germany, and those you find are way to expensive. If I need Romanian or German special characters I just switch and I know where to find them on the English layout...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 12:46 AM   #33391
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Ç is also present in the Spanish keyboard. At first glance it appears to be useless... but then there's Catalan language, which uses it.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 01:04 AM   #33392
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In Romanian we have şţăâî ŞŢĂÂÎ and they are all very easy to write using Romanian keyboard. I don't really use them though in casual writing, native speakers understand everything without those accents. Also I almost always use the English keyboard, I also bought one for work, had to buy it from Romania, since you almost can't find any in Germany, and those you find are way to expensive. If I need Romanian or German special characters I just switch and I know where to find them on the English layout...
Yes, I noticed that! Kind of strange to me as in french we don't care about capital letters...

Not only native speakers! I also understand most of the romanian that I read on internet without such special caracters...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 01:26 AM   #33393
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It is strange
in Canada definitely need to make your accents on the lettres majuscules
Otherwise teacher will hit you with a stick, now 1 m instead of 1 yd.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 01:32 AM   #33394
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Not only native speakers! I also understand most of the romanian that I read on internet without such special caracters...
It's not really hard to understand it actually.
And Romanian is not a hard language to learn, especially for Latin language speakers. I think only Portuguese have all of our sounds, others would struggle pronouncing some things, but you can still communicate without problems. Still sounds funny though
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Old January 25th, 2016, 01:47 AM   #33395
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Ç is also present in the Spanish keyboard. At first glance it appears to be useless... but then there's Catalan language, which uses it.
Ç exists in Friulian language too, although it doesn't in Italian. However Friulian, like other local languages and dialects, is mostly used in everyday speech, rather than in written form.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 02:29 AM   #33396
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It is strange
in Canada definitely need to make your accents on the lettres majuscules
Otherwise teacher will hit you with a stick, now 1 m instead of 1 yd.
In fact it applies to machine/computer writing essentialy, it comes from our past lazy printers when they were printing characters individualy and after it was certainly to make some economy with ink...

But Quebecois are using a french that sometimes appears to be quite strange to us, the french people, as you are still using some french word that we no longer use in french (from France) everyday language, that we have replaced with the most common english words... (Like "chips" (potato chip) that you are still calling "croustille", and lot of others that I don't remember, but when I went to Quebec, it was quite funny to hear all those words that we no longer use in France... )... but in the same time, Quebecois are also using plenty of english words in everyday speaking...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 02:37 AM   #33397
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It's not really hard to understand it actually.
And Romanian is not a hard language to learn, especially for Latin language speakers. I think only Portuguese have all of our sounds, others would struggle pronouncing some things, but you can still communicate without problems. Still sounds funny though
For the vocabular, yes, it's pretty easy, during the firsts days that I were in Romania, I started to instantly recognize a good part of the vocabular that is coming from latin... but not everything, some words seems to have other origins and are more difficult to learn...

But also Romanian grammar is a bit hard, but the shi*iest thing about learning romanian is certainly the lack of course materials, this has been the biggest problem for me... even if it's understandable as the number of french people that actualy wanted to learn romanian is probably very very low... (and also I did have very very poor romanian teachers in university... )...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 02:58 AM   #33398
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I've modified my Italian keyboard to accommodate for some letters which are impossible to write with the standard one. For instance, it's impossible to capitalize accented letters, which is not a problem unless for "è" ("is"), since it can go at the beginning of a sentence: "È buono" ("It's good"). I think the Italian keyboard should be modified: it makes no sense having "ç" and "§" in it, which is not used in Italian, and not being able to capitalize "è". ‰ serves no purpose, you can just use %.
Will È at least auto-correct? (Had to switch to Canadian French again to do that...)
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Old January 25th, 2016, 03:00 AM   #33399
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It is strange
in Canada definitely need to make your accents on the lettres majuscules
Otherwise teacher will hit you with a stick, now 1 m instead of 1 yd.
Les Québécois have higher standards than the Français de France.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 03:26 AM   #33400
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Will È at least auto-correct? (Had to switch to Canadian French again to do that...)
E and è have two different meanings:
e = and
è = is

With iPhone it does autocorrect sometimes, but it's terribly annoying: it changes the meaning from "A and B" to "A is B" however, keyboards on phones have easy access to capitalised È.

On the computer, the only way to type È is to copy and paste, or use some weird combination like Alt + 12345 or something like that
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