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Old January 26th, 2016, 06:33 PM   #33421
NordikNerd
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Uber-taxi legal ?



Taxi drivers have blocked a major Paris road, in a protest at competition from app-based taxi services including Uber.
The drivers, who were also protesting against unlicensed cab firms, joined a nationwide public sector strike.

How can unlicensed taxi companies be legal ? Uber means that anybody who has a car and a driver's license can be a cabdriver ?

Uber claims that their business is some kind of carpooling, but if the driver charges the passengers it's taxi.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 07:31 PM   #33422
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They don't want to give up their overpriced cartel.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 09:20 PM   #33423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
They don't want to give up their overpriced cartel.
Taxi is definately not overpriced, keep in mind that many drivers work 10-12 hours a day on commision to get wages that are on par with what staff at McDonalds earn. The probem is that there are too many taxi vehicles on the streets competing for customers. Reduce the number of taxi-licenses in order to improve working conditions for the taxidrivers.

Uberpop is illegal in many countries because it's a gypsycab operation not crowdfunded carpooling. Uber has also legal authorized taxis driven by licensed taxpaying taxidrivers.

I adore the french, they really know how to protest, wether they are cabdrivers or farmers.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 09:36 PM   #33424
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Uber wouldn't've been a success if the regular taxicabs are not overpriced. For most people it's way too expensive to use a taxi regularly. It's only affordable if you can split the cost or if somebody else is footing the bill (i.e. government contracts, corporate usage).
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Old January 26th, 2016, 10:19 PM   #33425
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They don't want to give up their overpriced cartel.
Technology will prevail and change the landscape completely. In 20 years there wont be much left from the taxi service.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 10:38 PM   #33426
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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Taxi is definately not overpriced, keep in mind that many drivers work 10-12 hours a day on commision to get wages that are on par with what staff at McDonalds earn. (..)
I used to work as a mini-cab (advanced booking only) driver in 2005/2006. I averaged in between 1800-2200 pounds a month after tax and expenses, such as: private hire insurance, motor insurance, 2 MOT's a year, vehicle maintenance (used own) and fuel. On today's money it would probably have equalled to over 3000 pounds a month, so, the amount of money rather unreachable for Mc Donnald's staff, including shop managers. Proper black-cabbie could have earned twice or even three times as much, if working hard.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 10:58 PM   #33427
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It depends largely on the country, I guess.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #33428
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An issue with taxis in many cities/countries is that they have an outdated process to license taxis or limit their numbers, with fixed numbers, heft license fees, perpetual authorizations etc.

Over time, this system evolved, in several countries, into a perverse system whereby the costs of the license/medallion/badge/plate to operate the taxi is very high, and the actual drivers must pay a hefty fee to drive, or get paid little on the income (net of all car expenses) they bring.

This is certainly the case in many US cities. New York City operates a medallion system, and the number of medallions today is not much different than it was 60 years ago. The costs of a taxi medallion in New York are above US$ 1.5 million. Even at a 5% year rate of return, that means the each medallion must earn net revenue of $75.000 to merely justify its financial costs. As a result, a normal person cannot operate in the taxi industry without renting a medallion (many medallions are owned by investors or exotic small investment funds), or driving for a fleet that has a number of them.

In any case, I think Uber offers more than price competition. They offer more predictability for pick-up rides, and a better way to pay for rides. Taxi companies had all the upper hand they needed to start using the same tools, but they didn't. Uber and similar business also eliminate the aggravation over erratic pricing not known before you step in the vehicle.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 12:38 AM   #33429
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
An issue with taxis in many cities/countries is that they have an outdated process to license taxis or limit their numbers, with fixed numbers, heft license fees, perpetual authorizations etc.

Over time, this system evolved, in several countries, into a perverse system whereby the costs of the license/medallion/badge/plate to operate the taxi is very high, and the actual drivers must pay a hefty fee to drive, or get paid little on the income (net of all car expenses) they bring.

This is certainly the case in many US cities. New York City operates a medallion system, and the number of medallions today is not much different than it was 60 years ago. The costs of a taxi medallion in New York are above US$ 1.5 million. Even at a 5% year rate of return, that means the each medallion must earn net revenue of $75.000 to merely justify its financial costs. As a result, a normal person cannot operate in the taxi industry without renting a medallion (many medallions are owned by investors or exotic small investment funds), or driving for a fleet that has a number of them.

In any case, I think Uber offers more than price competition. They offer more predictability for pick-up rides, and a better way to pay for rides. Taxi companies had all the upper hand they needed to start using the same tools, but they didn't. Uber and similar business also eliminate the aggravation over erratic pricing not known before you step in the vehicle.
That is the cartel setup that Chris is talking about.

There are half serious jokes about how the taxi lobby manages to prevent the prolonging of the railway or metro line to the airport in Prague...

The smart phone is the first step in which the modern computer technology radically changes the shape and definition of the transport industry. You see it everywhere, from the route planning, availability, ridership data, to evaluation, pricing accuracy and payment possibilities.

If those taxi chauffeurs would be interested in fair competition, they would be protesting to liberalize their market and so give everyone the same conditions. But they are not interested in that. They are interested in preserving their privileges and high entry costs in order to protect their profits.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 01:16 AM   #33430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post


Taxi drivers have blocked a major Paris road, in a protest at competition from app-based taxi services including Uber.
The drivers, who were also protesting against unlicensed cab firms, joined a nationwide public sector strike.

How can unlicensed taxi companies be legal ? Uber means that anybody who has a car and a driver's license can be a cabdriver ?

Uber claims that their business is some kind of carpooling, but if the driver charges the passengers it's taxi.
That's sad, but our taxies in france are the worst in the world or so... a true mafia.

I don't even understand how our government can still support them, that's a shame...

The fact is that they are lying or changing the reality in their favor. For example they are talking about the Taxi licence who can be very very expensive (up to 250.000€ in some parts of France)... but they are not telling that they actualy wanted this expensive licence system, at the origin, licences are free, it stopped when they asked, so they can earn even more money with it : when they retire, they can sold back this licence, and because the price is increasing every year because of this false-rarity, they sell it a lot more than what they payed for and are winning a lot....

The other point is that our taxis are winning a lot of money withouth reporting it (and paying taxes on it) : most of the taxis are pushing the clients to pay with cash, and after that this cash is not declared, they are keeping it for them... That's why I don't understand why our stupid government is still supporting them... And also tht's certainly why they are feared to use an app like Uber one day, because using such app would mean that they wouldn't been able to accept cash, all transaction would be with card and it would be trackable, so they would not be able to hide it and pay no taxes on it, they would certainly not win as much money as they are sadly winning now by performing a such bad service...

(Yes our taxies are also probably the worst on this planet, more than stealing money, they are incredibely rude for example... ).


For all these reasons, I couldn't more support Uber or services like that, who are the only solution to stop this mafia, in addition to be an awesome modern service!
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Old January 27th, 2016, 01:20 AM   #33431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
If those taxi chauffeurs would be interested in fair competition, they would be protesting to liberalize their market and so give everyone the same conditions. But they are not interested in that. They are interested in preserving their privileges and high entry costs in order to protect their profits.
And in France it's not only about only protecting their profits, it's about making even more money when they are selling back the licence to a new taxi, they are selling it way more expensive than what they usualy paid... such a shame, how governments can evn support that!!
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Old January 27th, 2016, 10:58 AM   #33432
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France also has a lot of protected professions, where you can't just compete.

2013:
Frustration with Paris's taxi shortage - the city has fewer now than it did in 1920 - is just one symptom of competition-killing rules that limit access to dozens of professions and which the European Union says stunt the French economy.

But President Francois Hollande has yet to formulate any plans to break up cartel-like behavior in professions ranging from taxi driver to notary to veterinarian, despite fresh calls from Brussels to cut red tape.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fr...96403420130705
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Old January 27th, 2016, 11:08 AM   #33433
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It's not that different in Italy.
Fortunately it's not one of those services you can't live without. I think I took a taxi three times in my life, of which in two cases I had alternatives...
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Old January 27th, 2016, 12:30 PM   #33434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
If those taxi chauffeurs would be interested in fair competition, they would be protesting to liberalize their market and so give everyone the same conditions. But they are not interested in that. They are interested in preserving their privileges and high entry costs in order to protect their profits.
There's the same problem here in Italy. I think the government should leave this sector and others (like pharmacies) to the free market. I don't think that laws aimed to protect a certain category from market competition are fair.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 01:11 PM   #33435
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There's the same problem here in Italy. I think the government should leave this sector and others (like pharmacies) to the free market. I don't think that laws aimed to protect a certain category from market competition are fair.
I see . About pharmacies, a good solution seems to open the sale of non-prescripted drugs to supermarkets, like we can see in UK or US, that's what are asking our french supermarket lobby, they want to hire pharmacians and sold those drugs at a low price... (they even paid TV ads for that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE6B7SZeuIk where we can see a pharmacian working in a supermarket but who as not the right to sell drugs like in a pharmacy...), and of course pharmacies are very opposed to that...
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Old January 27th, 2016, 06:03 PM   #33436
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STOP UBER NOW !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post

The smart phone is the first step in which the modern computer technology radically changes the shape and definition of the transport industry. You see it everywhere, from the route planning, availability, ridership data, to evaluation, pricing accuracy and payment possibilities.

If those taxi chauffeurs would be interested in fair competition, they would be protesting to liberalize their market and so give everyone the same conditions. But they are not interested in that. They are interested in preserving their privileges and high entry costs in order to protect their profits.
Uberpop is a driver transporting people in his own regular car, from what I understand he pays 20% of his profits to Uber and keeps the rest. The uberpop driver has no taxidriver license and he is supposed to account for taxes, but 3 of 10 drivers don't bother doing that, it's easy to get round because there is no faremeter. The 20% goes directly to a company registered in the Netherlands, so Uber is a skilled tax evasion scheme.

To obtain a taxidriver's license you must not have been convicted of violent crimes and you must know the geography of the city you operate in, an uberpop driver has no such requirements he only has to know how to drive a car.

Uberpop does not follow the legislation about working hours, an uberpop driver may have worked more than 12 hours and be very tired resulting in risks for the customers.

Uberpop is illegal and a 24-year-old Uberpop-driver in Sweden has been sentenced to fines for unlawful commercial transport and violation of the taxi transport law. Uberpop says "Uber is not a transportation provider" and claims to be a carpool operation, but we all know that it's a taxicompany trying to evade taxes and taxi legislation.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 06:20 PM   #33437
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Uberpop is a driver transporting people in his own regular car, from what I understand he pays 20% of his profits to Uber and keeps the rest. The uberpop driver has no taxidriver license and he is supposed to account for taxes, but 3 of 10 drivers don't bother doing that, it's easy to get round because there is no faremeter. The 20% goes directly to a company registered in the Netherlands, so Uber is a skilled tax evasion scheme.

To obtain a taxidriver's license you must not have been convicted of violent crimes and you must know the geography of the city you operate in, an uberpop driver has no such requirements he only has to know how to drive a car.

Uberpop does not follow the legislation about working hours, an uberpop driver may have worked more than 12 hours and be very tired resulting in risks for the customers.

Uberpop is illegal and a 24-year-old Uberpop-driver in Sweden has been sentenced to fines for unlawful commercial transport and violation of the taxi transport law. Uberpop says "Uber is not a transportation provider" and claims to be a carpool operation, but we all know that it's a taxicompany trying to evade taxes and taxi legislation.
Then, Uber should introduce stricter requirements, such as a good knowledge of the city, a clean criminal record and a driving hours' limit.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 27th, 2016, 07:44 PM   #33438
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In Romania at least I know for sure that Uber drivers have to show that they do not have a criminal record.

On the other side, Romanian taxi drivers are not required to have a perfectly clean criminal record. Many ex-convicts work as taxi drivers, because nobody else hires them.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 09:12 PM   #33439
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Uberpop is a driver transporting people in his own regular car, from what I understand he pays 20% of his profits to Uber and keeps the rest. The uberpop driver has no taxidriver license and he is supposed to account for taxes, but 3 of 10 drivers don't bother doing that, it's easy to get round because there is no faremeter. The 20% goes directly to a company registered in the Netherlands, so Uber is a skilled tax evasion scheme.

To obtain a taxidriver's license you must not have been convicted of violent crimes and you must know the geography of the city you operate in, an uberpop driver has no such requirements he only has to know how to drive a car.

Uberpop does not follow the legislation about working hours, an uberpop driver may have worked more than 12 hours and be very tired resulting in risks for the customers.

Uberpop is illegal and a 24-year-old Uberpop-driver in Sweden has been sentenced to fines for unlawful commercial transport and violation of the taxi transport law. Uberpop says "Uber is not a transportation provider" and claims to be a carpool operation, but we all know that it's a taxicompany trying to evade taxes and taxi legislation.
You basically talk about tax evasion and customer satisfaction. The first issue should be solved by the governments, irrespective of the sector in which it happens. It is the plague of the modern economy. The government should address this issue on the level of the service provider as there it seems the easiest to be done and implemented to the whole process. As simple as that. The tax would be automatically withhold in the price that is being paid through the app and the responsibility would be on the app provider.

The second issue is as of lately solved by the market self. Those drivers that don't provide good customer satisfaction will get bad references and no one will hire them. The technology made it very much possible to evaluate individual drivers based on references quite well. That is in fact one of the driving ideas behind those app distributed services. It would be easy to implement driving time restrictions in the app if such information would be required by the customers.

If the taxi chauffeurs were so keen on competition, they would be demanding for themselves the same advantageous conditions as the Uber drivers have and thus more liberal market for the whole taxi sector, or they would demand complete redefining of the whole sector. However, they demand cancellation of the service, as they want to preserve their advantages.

The technology made it possible for people to share resources that they would otherwise not be able to share. It made it possible to increase the efficiencies on the market, that means, connecting the people with car and willingness to work with the people that need transportations. It made it possible to make incomes and work much more flexible and diverse than ever.

Basically there is not much difference between calling your friend, asking him for a lift and paying him and using uberpop. It is just that such a service was simply not possible 20 years ago on such a scale. It is the same transformation of the market as the transformation that internet meant to the music and film industry and their products distribution. If you lent someone a record 30 years ago, or if you send him a file nowadays, it is basically the same thing happening.

Banning the advancements that the technology provides is not the right way to go. In 20 or 30 years when the cars will be self driving and car sharing will become as common as using public transport now a days. Will we ban it, because of the taxi chauffeurs and public transport? I don't think so.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 10:54 PM   #33440
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Banning the advancements that the technology provides is not the right way to go. In 20 or 30 years when the cars will be self driving and car sharing will become as common as using public transport now a days. Will we ban it, because of the taxi chauffeurs and public transport? I don't think so.
The only possible solution to get rid of all those poor taxi drivers!!!

And at least, self driving cars will certainly be more polite than the actuals taxis (I hate them so much, french or romanians, it's almost the same...)
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