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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:25 AM   #33621
Penn's Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Exactly. Also many US states have a quite "square-ish" shape and are thus less remarkable on a blank map than most European countries, that are often made up by islands, peninsulae, etc...
Moreover, European countries are more peculiar and different each other in terms of language, culture, history and landmarks. While anyone can associate New York with the Statue of Liberty, California with Death Valley, or Nevada with Las Vegas, it's more difficult for someone who isn't familiar with American geography and culture to associate, let's say, Delaware, Oregon or Kentucky with something particular. Many US states, Canadian provinces, Australian states, Russian oblasts or Chinese provinces can be very large, larger than many European countries, but they are less known because they haven't a distinct identity, being part of a larger country with its own identity.
I don't find that weird for an oversea average-educated guy, mix on a blank map, let's say, Latvia or Lithuania or Kosovo and Macedonia, but Austria and Australia...
The Statue of Liberty's in New Jersey.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:28 AM   #33622
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Since last year it got more complicate:
90 provinces
14 metropolitan cities
5 free inter-municipal consortiums (in Sicily)
1 autonomous region (Aosta Valley)
total: 110 sub-regional subdivisions
See? Why bother?

(But seriously, that's one respect in which an American state is not just another administrative subdivision. As components of a federal state, the Constitution prevents central government from just wiping them out, changing their names, redrawing their boundaries.... American counties, rather than states, would be better counterparts to, say, Dutch provinces.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:30 AM   #33623
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't know, I feel getting all worked up because of clearly innocent mistakes on fast-paced live news broadcasts is something so raging-hormones-at-17.

Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not saying y'all shouldn't have written about this, or that it doesn't belong on this thread, it is just that I don't understand how some ppl become so caught up and sometimes super defensive with benign things like a TV technician messing up some labels on a map shown a few seconds, and then don't let the argument go when suddenly it becomes a jab at whole countries "xyz-ers are this/that".

If the mishaps were funny, there is no need to use them for these passive-aggressive reactions so common in the Highways and Autobahns section, or to make broad generalizations of other people. We are all better than that.
HEAR, HEAR!
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:34 AM   #33624
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
See? Why bother?

(But seriously, that's one respect in which an American state is not just another administrative subdivision. As components of a federal state, the Constitution prevents central government from just wiping them out, changing their names, redrawing their boundaries.... American counties, rather than states, would be better counterparts to, say, Dutch provinces.
in other words, very EU

Just like how the states basically associated themselves to create the federal govt, like the EU did
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:39 AM   #33625
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The difference being that the EU is not a nation-state with a strong identity of its own and I'd guess never will be.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:40 AM   #33626
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Originally Posted by KøbenhavnK View Post
I don't know how often Americans mess up the Netherlands and Denmark but my guess would be that only a handful of them know the difference between Dutch and Danish.

Which is perfectly OK with me. I for instance have no idea what someone from North Dakota is called.... Anyone?

But even a junior producer at CNN should know that Australia is a continent with strange animals and strange greetings (mate) that's in the Southern hemisphere.

Leading to the next question about the American approach to geography.

Why are they always talking about The Western hemisphere?

Has anyone ever heard ANYBODY talking about The Eastern hemisphere... ?
The Western Hemisphere is the Americas. Y'all can blame yourselves for that one: on the typical Eurocentric map of the world, they're on the left - west - side.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 04:37 AM   #33627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't know, I feel getting all worked up because of clearly innocent mistakes on fast-paced live news broadcasts is something so raging-hormones-at-17.

Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not saying y'all shouldn't have written about this, or that it doesn't belong on this thread, it is just that I don't understand how some ppl become so caught up and sometimes super defensive with benign things like a TV technician messing up some labels on a map shown a few seconds, and then don't let the argument go when suddenly it becomes a jab at whole countries "xyz-ers are this/that".

If the mishaps were funny, there is no need to use them for these passive-aggressive reactions so common in the Highways and Autobahns section, or to make broad generalizations of other people. We are all better than that.
This is notoriety on the CNN and it never gets old.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 08:10 AM   #33628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
The difference being that the EU is not a nation-state with a strong identity of its own and I'd guess never will be.
I think US is not a nation state either. But apparently, all citizens of US (with all nationalities) feel the strong identity with the country and this is the difference between US and EU.

I may sound like typical V4 separatist, but I have not seen anyone in EU putting the flag of EU in their yard though it is very common in US (talking about US flag of course).
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Old March 1st, 2016, 09:22 AM   #33629
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I see your point, but I had a history teacher in high school who made a point of teaching us that our "nationality" was American; if you were, for example, Italian-American, Italian wasn't your "nationality" but your "ethnic background." My ethnicity is Polish, but I've never been to Poland, don't speak the language... Other than my last name and some Polish foods we eat at holidays, I don't feel Polish at all. (I do have some curiosity about who my ancestors were, but that's a bit different.) I do identify with the U.S., its ideals, its history... I can visit a Civil War site and feel as much of a connection with that event as anyone else, even though I had no ancestors here at the time.

I guess we're a nation, just not one that's defined by ethnicity. I imagine Canadians, Australians and so on can say the same thing.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 09:25 AM   #33630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I think US is not a nation state either. But apparently, all citizens of US (with all nationalities) feel the strong identity with the country and this is the difference between US and EU.

I may sound like typical V4 separatist, but I have not seen anyone in EU putting the flag of EU in their yard though it is very common in US (talking about US flag of course).
USA is a sovereign state. EU is not.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
The Western Hemisphere is the Americas. Y'all can blame yourselves for that one: on the typical Eurocentric map of the world, they're on the left - west - side.
The "eurocentric" map was made not for political reasons, just for practical ones: it's the only way to distribute lands on a map without cutting a continent in half or putting a large piece of uninteresting ocean in the middle of it.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 09:38 AM   #33631
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
True, but states are sometimes larger than European countries.
North-Rhine-Westphalia has 17.8 million inhabitants. If it was an independent nation, it would be the 10th largest in Europe (of 47 independent nations and 7 dependent territories), slightly less populated than Romania but slightly more populated then the Netherlands, having approximately as many inhabitants as Austria (8.4 M) and Sweden (9.5 M) together.
But I suppose even in a neigbouring country, i.e. the Netherlands, the majority of people has no clue about which city may be the capital of NRW (it's Düsseldorf) while 99% knows without hesitating the capitals of Romania, Austria or Sweden.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 10:04 AM   #33632
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I guess we're a nation, just not one that's defined by ethnicity. I imagine Canadians, Australians and so on can say the same thing.
The words "nation" and "nationality" have very different meanings here in Europe. A "nation state" or "national state" is a state which is based on a specific ethnic background. According to this definition Austria or Belgium are not nation states - and of course the US, too, is not.
Using the word "nation" in the American way, members of ethnical minorities have the nationality and are part of the nation of the state where they live, using it the European way, they are not.
I remember when in the 90's Romania introduced labels in English in passports and for "citizenship" the English label was "Nationality" which is correct by the American way but ethnically Hungarian Romanian citizens protested saying their nationality was not Romanian but Hungarian. The respective Romanian word "naţionalitate" has an ethnic, demographic meaning as well.

The correct German translation for "nationality" may rather be "Staatsangehörigkeit" which means citizenship (literally "belonging to a state") than "Nationalität" which means ethnicity. Grammatically it may be called as false friend, however the difference is basically not grammatical.

It may be confusing, especially here where all of us write in English but most of us think more or less in our native language.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:01 PM   #33633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
The Statue of Liberty's in New Jersey.
Sorry. While I knew that the border runs through the middle of the Hudson river (that makes NYC proper being much smaller than its metropolitan area), I've never realized that Liberty Island actually lies around 500 meters across the border.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:06 PM   #33634
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I think US is not a nation state either. But apparently, all citizens of US (with all nationalities) feel the strong identity with the country and this is the difference between US and EU.

I may sound like typical V4 separatist, but I have not seen anyone in EU putting the flag of EU in their yard though it is very common in US (talking about US flag of course).
Exactly. Also at international sport competition, people do celebrate their own country, not EU. And every country celebrate its own public holiday, like the 4th July for Americans, not an EU public holiday.
If I go to the USA I will be identified as an Italian, not as an European, if a New Yorker comes here, (s)he would be identified as an American, not as a New Yorker.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:17 PM   #33635
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I think it would be cool to have en EU-wide holiday or commemorative date across all member states, Europa Day, but that is not going to happen, not now, not on the foreseeable decades.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 02:08 PM   #33636
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I see your point, but I had a history teacher in high school who made a point of teaching us that our "nationality" was American; if you were, for example, Italian-American, Italian wasn't your "nationality" but your "ethnic background." My ethnicity is Polish, but I've never been to Poland, don't speak the language... Other than my last name and some Polish foods we eat at holidays, I don't feel Polish at all. (I do have some curiosity about who my ancestors were, but that's a bit different.) I do identify with the U.S., its ideals, its history... I can visit a Civil War site and feel as much of a connection with that event as anyone else, even though I had no ancestors here at the time.

I guess we're a nation, just not one that's defined by ethnicity. I imagine Canadians, Australians and so on can say the same thing.
There are different ethnicities in the European national states as well, its just not that heterogeneous as in the US. Add to that different national definitions of what ethnicity, nationality and citizenship mean and you got pretty messed up picture. The fact is however that there's hardly anyone identifying with a European nationality.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 02:11 PM   #33637
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I think it would be cool to have en EU-wide holiday or commemorative date across all member states, Europa Day, but that is not going to happen, not now, not on the foreseeable decades.
1st of May or 5th till 9th of May are pretty close to that.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 02:49 PM   #33638
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I see your point, but I had a history teacher in high school who made a point of teaching us that our "nationality" was American; if you were, for example, Italian-American, Italian wasn't your "nationality" but your "ethnic background." My ethnicity is Polish, but I've never been to Poland, don't speak the language... Other than my last name and some Polish foods we eat at holidays, I don't feel Polish at all. (I do have some curiosity about who my ancestors were, but that's a bit different.) I do identify with the U.S., its ideals, its history... I can visit a Civil War site and feel as much of a connection with that event as anyone else, even though I had no ancestors here at the time.

I guess we're a nation, just not one that's defined by ethnicity. I imagine Canadians, Australians and so on can say the same thing.
Hmmm! I once sat next to an American of Polish extraction on a transatlantic flight from LGW to Boston who said just about the exact the same thing. He couldn't understand why Americans of Italian & Irish descent kept on identifying themselves as Irish or Italian and mentioning the 'old country' when probably about 90% of them have no direct connection with said countries and are 3rd or 4th generation. Can't say I disagree with him either.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:12 PM   #33639
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I am pretty sure the 25th of December and 1st of January are closer :-D
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Old March 1st, 2016, 04:18 PM   #33640
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Yet 1 January comes almost a year before 25 December (In a given calendar year ).
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