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Old December 21st, 2016, 10:19 PM   #35081
g.spinoza
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The liquid in that thermometer is definitely not mercury, as that would have frozen at around -37ºC.
In colder climates the usually use alcohol, which solidifies at -113 °C. Bet being in Russia, I'm surprised they didn't drink it out.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 10:47 PM   #35082
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The number of people in Russia who have died as a result of drinking bath oil has risen from 49 to at least 58, local media has reported.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 11:14 PM   #35083
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I just wonder why in heck they put alcohol into bath oil. Ok, a silly question. It is Russia.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:16 AM   #35084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have a question for members from the Eastern EU (i.e. post-communist countries). The average monthly salaries are reported to be € 700 - 1100. That sounds low by Dutch standards, but of course the cost of living is lower.

But what do you generally pay for rent or mortgage? I've read that in some countries a considerable share of the population lives in a house with no outstanding mortgage or rent. In that case, the purchasing power of a € 1000/month salary may be more comparable to € 1500 - 1800 in western Europe.

In the Netherlands the general rental cost for social housing is between € 400 - 700 per month (excluding utilities). But in the unregulated market, rents over € 1000/month are more common.

It's interesting to get some better insight into the cost of living differences, some of which you may not experience as a brief visitor or tourist. Especially since housing is by far the largest component in the cost of living for most people, which you do not see as a tourist.
The reason home ownership is so high in Estonia is because during the Soviet occupation you didn't have to pay for housing, you were just given a flat. When the Soviet occupation ended you could by that flat for very little so everybody did. This is different to East Germany, for example, where the municipality remained the owner of these buildings even after unification and people living in those flats had to pay rent. In Estonia all those people became home owners.

However, the latest generation doesn't have this privilige so more and more people are renting, at least until they can afford to take a mortgage (it's not easy saving 20% for a downpayment). The renting market consists only of people renting out the flats they own, there is very limited municipal housing and not a single privately owned apartment building that's meant for renting, as far as I know.

Average salary in Tallinn is roughly €1,000 after taxes. A single bedroom flat in the city centre is €400-€600 a month and in the outskirts €270-€450. This does not include utilities (heating, water, electricity, garbage collection, internet, cable TV etc.).

The average price for a m2 of flat is roughly €1,700 and people usually pay 20% as their downpayment for a mortgage. The m2 price varies hugely between city districts though.

If you pay €100,000 for a single bedroom flat in the city centre and take a mortgage for 30 years with 20% downpayment you are looking at roughly €300 as a monthly payment with current interest rates.

Buying a similar apartment in the commieblock suburbs would cost you €65,000. At 20% downpayment that would be roughly €200 a month.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:17 AM   #35085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have a question for members from the Eastern EU (i.e. post-communist countries). The average monthly salaries are reported to be € 700 - 1100. That sounds low by Dutch standards, but of course the cost of living is lower.

But what do you generally pay for rent or mortgage? I've read that in some countries a considerable share of the population lives in a house with no outstanding mortgage or rent. In that case, the purchasing power of a € 1000/month salary may be more comparable to € 1500 - 1800 in western Europe.

In the Netherlands the general rental cost for social housing is between € 400 - 700 per month (excluding utilities). But in the unregulated market, rents over € 1000/month are more common.

It's interesting to get some better insight into the cost of living differences, some of which you may not experience as a brief visitor or tourist. Especially since housing is by far the largest component in the cost of living for most people, which you do not see as a tourist.
I can confirm what my Eastern Europe peers said. We somehow love to own things and rental living is only temporary.

I inherited my flat after my grandma so I am rather a lucky one, but the monthly costs are quite high. We pay approximately:
160 € for facility management (repairs, reconstruction loan, etc),
100 € for electricity
100 € for gas
===========
360 € monthly

Bratislava is very expensive compared to other regions in Slovakia. To get some basic knowledge:
An average new 3 rooms flat costs approximately 160 000 € in Bratislava, in some poor Slovak regions (e. g. with unemployment rate higher than 20 % ) you can get the same for 30 000 €. It is obviously reflected in rent fees that are about 700 € per 3 rooms flat monthly in BA. The mortgage fees are the same. That is why people tend to buy their own flats rather than being tenants.

Generally, if you have a couple, the whole salary of one member goes to living costs. It is sad, but true.

Goods cost are usually the same as well as in Western Europe, but I think we have cheaper restaurants. Also, transport is not very expensive: especially trains that are for free for students and pensioners and rather cheap for working class (for example Bratislava - Košice = 445 km = 18 €).

The most essential problem are loans. People tend to take them without deeper consideration.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:23 AM   #35086
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Yesterday I saw The Shear Madness play for the first time. It was very cool although very suggestive. I think the audience always votes for the same character every night and I doubt the actors are ready to play all possible scenarios My GF saw it three times and she told me the ending was always the same.
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Last edited by volodaaaa; December 22nd, 2016 at 12:31 AM.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 01:28 AM   #35087
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So former "East block" countries are very similar in this aspect
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 02:02 AM   #35088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I can confirm what my Eastern Europe peers said. We somehow love to own things and rental living is only temporary.
Bah in Canada we think the same, maybe because so many of us trace back to Eastern Europe

I pay about 1400 EUR in mortgage monthly and am so happy since value of home has increased like 20-25% in past year
In this region (Toronto-ish) there was a presentation saying average house has earned more money (via appreciation) in 2016 than the owner of the house at his job

On a side note the mentions above of movable objects being cheaper in West EU than eastern EU is really interesting. In Canada vs USA there is a similar situation (USA has cheaper televisions, automobiles, etc typically), but the EU is common market without customs barriers and often, with same currency (though most east EU countries have not gone to EUR yet). It's interesting that "grey-market" importing hasn't brought prices in both sides to parity yet, especially with internet (e.g. buy from amazon.de and ship-to Romania)
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Last edited by Kanadzie; December 22nd, 2016 at 02:07 AM.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 03:15 AM   #35089
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In Yugoslavia it was very easy to get a flat. Most people got the flat from the employer they worked for (mostly from municipalities, state owned banks and companies). The rent for the flat was very small, like 1/8 of the salary (by absolute numbers it would be like 20€ for normal size flat). Yugoslavia especially in the 80s had like 1000% inflation, so many peole took a credit for a new house they built and never really paid for. In the 90s when independence occured state needed liquid money and people were offered to buy their existing rented flats for like 1/10 of market price. So the result today is many people own real estate, and actually got rich on the account of the country.

But it is all different for today young generation (including myself), average salary is half the one of WE, and the rents and real estate prices are on pair with WE. I don't see myself buying real estate, the concept of fixing yourself to one place I find stupid.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 08:12 AM   #35090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
The liquid in that thermometer is definitely not mercury, as that would have frozen at around -37ºC.
And it is red.

Coloured liquids in thermometers are ethanol with various dyes.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 09:33 AM   #35091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
I don't see myself buying real estate, the concept of fixing yourself to one place I find stupid.
One may argue that it's stupid to pay money every month and have nothing to leave behind to your children. It's basically tossing money down the drain.

Besides, you are not really "fixed" in one place if you buy a house. You can always sell it, you know.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 11:01 AM   #35092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The boiling water trick. I wonder how much it cools off just by walking it outside for a moment.
If just for a few seconds, not very much (assuming you are using a regular pan or some receptacle like that, not a serpentine mesh or something like that). It takes a lot of energy to change the temperature of water, and the surface:volume ratio in a normal container is low.

A large chunk of ice will take a lot of time to melt even on a hot day, if kept away from radiation (sunlight) more so.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:52 PM   #35093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
One may argue that it's stupid to pay money every month and have nothing to leave behind to your children. It's basically tossing money down the drain.

Besides, you are not really "fixed" in one place if you buy a house. You can always sell it, you know.
From financial standpoint it is probably worse, yes.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 01:07 PM   #35094
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
On a side note the mentions above of movable objects being cheaper in West EU than eastern EU is really interesting. In Canada vs USA there is a similar situation (USA has cheaper televisions, automobiles, etc typically), but the EU is common market without customs barriers and often, with same currency
Yes, but taxes may be very different. E.g. VAT is 19% in Germany, 27% in Hungary. This solely may cause a 6-7% difference in the retail price.

Quote:
(though most east EU countries have not gone to EUR yet).
And basically they don't want to. The 2000's when all wanted to have it, are gone.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 01:09 PM   #35095
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vat 27 % in H , my god !!!!
is this the country with the highest one ?
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 01:13 PM   #35096
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vat 27 % in H , my god !!!!
is this the country with the highest one ?
In EU, yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe..._tax#VAT_rates.

Luxembourg has 17% only.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 01:18 PM   #35097
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This is going out of hand.
I really cannot see why I have to pay a quarter of everything to the State. It seems unreasonably (but of course reasons are very well known) high.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 01:19 PM   #35098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A large chunk of ice will take a lot of time to melt even on a hot day, if kept away from radiation (sunlight) more so.
Making zero-degree water from zero-degree ice requires about the same amount of energy as making 80-degree water from zero-degree water.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 06:01 PM   #35099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I inherited my flat after my grandma so I am rather a lucky one, but the monthly costs are quite high. We pay approximately:
160 € for facility management (repairs, reconstruction loan, etc),
100 € for electricity
100 € for gas
===========
360 € monthly

Brati
Jesus ******* Christ!!
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 07:03 PM   #35100
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Jesus ******* Christ!!
The facility management is usually about 20 - 30 €, but we are awaiting the reconstruction to decrease the monthly payment for gas So basically we take money from one pile and put it on another one
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