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Old December 31st, 2016, 02:33 PM   #35201
Highway89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post

i dont like the generic national one by fomento :
Indeed. It's shameful that Fomento, which manages the most important roads in Spain, uses just three pictograms for tourist destinations. Especially considering how important for Spain's economy tourism is.

For instance, they use the same picture for Roman ruins and for a Baroque Cathedral. Or for a National Park in the Pyrenees and the marshlands in Doñana


Source: http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...29/1110800.pdf

Thankfully, some regions like Catalonia, Castilla y León or Extremadura have created their own signs. Decentralisation of road management isn't that bad sometimes
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Old December 31st, 2016, 02:40 PM   #35202
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Last month the representatives of my city decided to "further a tourism" and they put a brown sign at every street light pole possible. It is like a plague. No mention they used wrong typeface, domestic language solely and wrong symbols. And I wonder what is the leverage when the signs are put on residential streets.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 03:10 PM   #35203
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Of course it all depends on occupancy. An empty articulated bus heading to a depot does not have good results either.

It could be comparable. For what I googled, I have found the average consumption of a cruise ship is 9 437 l per 100 km. The average capacity is about 3 000 passengers, which adds up to 3,14 l / passenger / 100 km. It is similar to a car occupied by two people.
true, i have miscalculated something first time.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 03:16 PM   #35204
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If you need to compare apples to oranges, the proper set to compare could be the car trip plus a dinner in a restaurant plus a hotel night the breakfast included.
No I am not. In my opinion, car is the least effective mode of transport according to the fuel consumption per passenger. Either we take account of full cruise ship or we suppose that some portion of average cruise ship consumption is not used for the engine, the car is still the worse.

And there is no way how to distinguish what portion of fuel goes to which usage.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 11:37 AM   #35205
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I like that and I wish more countries adopted similar practices (Germany uses them, but more sparsely and it doesn't look as good as the French).
I drove a lot on French motorways last September and don't think that there are more brown touristic signs than in Germany. I think Germany has too much of them because too many signs are generally bad. It's called "Schilderwald", signs forest.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 11:50 AM   #35206
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Larger family cars have a huge depreciation of value in the first few years. Why buy a € 35,000 car when you can buy a 5 or 6 year old model for € 12,000? (for example: Volkswagen Passat).
Er, maybe to have a new car? it is a value in itself, at least for me. Not everyone looks at a car for its value in a few years.
New cars last longer, they come with warranty, and they are much more fuel efficient than second-hand ones, at least officially. For instance, my 8-y-o euro 4 diesel car is most likely to be banned in many Italian cities next year.
For all these reasons I'm looking to buy a new car in 2017, crossover suv diesel euro 6. I've come down to 4 or 5 models: Hyundai Tucson, Ford Kuga, Peugeot 3008 as first choices, Kia Sportage and Nissan Qashqai as backups.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 11:54 AM   #35207
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Well, I can understand that reasoning if you're talking about the 1990s or early 2000s. But a 2011 model isn't really that much worse than a 2016 model. In particular with Volkswagen or Audi, where model updates are very small.

At least not as much to throw € 20,000 away to drive the newest model.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 12:30 PM   #35208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, I can understand that reasoning if you're talking about the 1990s or early 2000s. But a 2011 model isn't really that much worse than a 2016 model. In particular with Volkswagen or Audi, where model updates are very small.

At least not as much to throw € 20,000 away to drive the newest model.
Car factories do not make used cars. There would be no used cars to buy if nobody bought new ones.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 12:56 PM   #35209
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At least in the Netherlands, the far majority of middle-class to high-end cars start their life as a company car. Company cars account for two-thirds of all new car sales.

People who do buy a new car usually buy a small car, often not over € 20,000. The depreciation of a more expensive car is just too great to justify the cost for many people. Like I said, a larger car like a Volkswagen Passat loses some € 20,000 in value in the first four or five years.

In the Netherlands, the share of new car sales (non-company car) is only 5% of all car sales.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 01:00 PM   #35210
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Netherlands has a tax anomaly. It has a vastly overinflated corporate fleet, and also all sort of gimmicky lease arrangements that distort figures. For instance, if you are self-employed and do business as a company entity, even one without employers and headquartered at your house, there is a significant tax benefit buying the car through a business, or leasing it - as long as revenues are high enough.

I was checking prices of used cars in Norway, they are nowhere as outrageous as the price of new cars, devaluation there seems to be even more of an issue. Cars used for just 2 years are already much cheaper than brand new ones.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 02:55 PM   #35211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Netherlands has a tax anomaly. It has a vastly overinflated corporate fleet, and also all sort of gimmicky lease arrangements that distort figures. For instance, if you are self-employed and do business as a company entity, even one without employers and headquartered at your house, there is a significant tax benefit buying the car through a business, or leasing it - as long as revenues are high enough.

I was checking prices of used cars in Norway, they are nowhere as outrageous as the price of new cars, devaluation there seems to be even more of an issue. Cars used for just 2 years are already much cheaper than brand new ones.
Basically, every country is different in this sense. Thus, the purchase logic varies a lot.

In Finland, the company does not gain a tax benefit from having a company car fleet. It depends on the terms and conditions whether people drive a company car or a private one. Earlier, I had a company car. I got a new job a few years ago, and my current employer does not introduce very attractive terms, and I decided to buy a private one. No big difference in terms of cost and less bureaucracy.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:28 PM   #35212
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Basically, every country is different in this sense. Thus, the purchase logic varies a lot.
Exactly! The Netherlands are a very small part of the world. I think it's not good to generalize one's personal experience.

I had bad experience with "old" cars almost 20 years ago. Thus, I thought I should sell my next car when it's 7 or 8 years old because it's just before repairs and you still get some money for the car. I made the fault again but finally bought a brand-new car when the old one was almost 10 years old (200,000km, Diesel engine, Ford Focus; I had a minor accident and didn't feel good while driving afterwards). Why did I buy a brand-new car? Just for the sake of having a new car. I could choose all options I wanna have or I don't wanna have (e.g. no annoying parking assistance which most people buy). I usually don't care about mileage or eco norms et cetera. My number one choise was about 50% more expensive just because of the brand. That means, I even saved a lot of money with my actual car now

But that's only me. I don't think that everyone is like me or that anyone should be like I am - I'm unique and I wanna stay unique
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:41 PM   #35213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Exactly! The Netherlands are a very small part of the world.
Yes, but rapid depreciation of a car's value in the first couple of years is not limited to the Netherlands or a few countries.

A car is usually the second most expensive thing people buy in their life (after a house). But whereas a house usually keeps or even significantly appreciates its value, a car loses its value very fast.

But of course in many countries a car is a status symbol and people evidently spend their money accordingly.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 09:38 PM   #35214
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
At least in the Netherlands, the far majority of middle-class to high-end cars start their life as a company car. Company cars account for two-thirds of all new car sales.
That's the same in Germany. Most middle class to high-end cars are bought new as company cars. So I don't understand that behaviour of buying a brand new car as a private person. That's why I've never bought a new car. For me the drop in value is way too huge.

However a new car is something special and you can add all the options you like, while with a used car, you have to accept the decisions of the previous owner. (No problem for cars on the higher end, because you'll find a lot of 5-series BMWs with almost all packages and options included, but for a VW Golf or Passat you've to search much harder to get a car with all liked options)

Nevertheless I've never had any issue with my used cars. When reaching 200.000km a little bit of maintenance had to be done, but then you'll be fine for the next 100.000km.
I reached 150.000km with my current one a few weeks ago. 2 years and 90.000km I'd no problems apart from a brake job and a camshaft sensor which was within the warranty. Passing 250.000km I usually flip the car for an okay price. When the used car warranty expires, I usually do most basic maintenance work myself, too, saving a few extra pennies.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 10:14 PM   #35215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, I can understand that reasoning if you're talking about the 1990s or early 2000s. But a 2011 model isn't really that much worse than a 2016 model. In particular with Volkswagen or Audi, where model updates are very small.

At least not as much to throw € 20,000 away to drive the newest model.
Well, I bought my car in 2008 but it's a model from 2006, so it's 10 years now.

As I said, I am not interested at all in depreciation. It's not like I want to get rich selling a used car. I prefer, as someone said, use my car as long as i can, and then buy another one, than buy a used car that forces me to change every few years.
I loathe the idea of placing my butt and my hands in a place where another guy I don't know placed his for extensive periods of time. I had a used car more than 10 years ago, but I was young and my priorities were different.
Moreover, I don't trust nobody. Why should I entrust with my life a car that can have known problems, hidden by a dishonest seller? I feel safer on a new car.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 12:40 AM   #35216
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Moreover, I don't trust nobody. Why should I entrust with my life a car that can have known problems, hidden by a dishonest seller? I feel safer on a new car.
It's called a test-drive...
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:38 AM   #35217
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Today's banner on SSC features an excellent road for a road-trip. Original image:

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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:12 AM   #35218
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I have a Toyota (4.) and it is just working.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 12:05 PM   #35219
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It's called a test-drive...
I really do not think that a 30 minutes long test-drive could be enough to discover all possible failures (e.g. some of my failure indicators turns on after a long monotone drive on motorway - if I decided to sell my car, I would be pretty much sure that nobody would find the failures). It is sad, but true.

You just have to believe that the seller is decent.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:22 PM   #35220
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I really do not think that a 30 minutes long test-drive could be enough to discover all possible failures (e.g. some of my failure indicators turns on after a long monotone drive on motorway - if I decided to sell my car, I would be pretty much sure that nobody would find the failures). It is sad, but true.
Bit of research up front to know what to look for depending on which car you'relooking at (most cars have some type-specific issues), other than that try every button you can find to see if it works, look at the tires, engine compartiment etc. and take it for a drive. That should give you time to discover like 99% of things that could be wrong with the car. And the other 1%... That would be the risk of buying a car a lot cheaper. It's not like all dealer-cars are 100% correct...
And if you truly feel the way you do about second-hand cars then good for you, more second-hand choice for me.
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