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Old January 17th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #35361
piotr71
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
This is absurd. On the A9 near Nuremberg I was caught in a rain so heavy that you couldn't see a thing, so I turned on the fog lights, and this guy (a lot) behind me kept flashing me... I had literally no idea about what he wanted, I asked my colleague at work the day after and he told me. For me it was absolutely ridiculous.



In Italy the rules states that in case of fog, snow or heavy rain, with visibility less than 50 m, the rear foglight MUST be on.
What do you do, if you can see a car behind you in distance smaller than 50 meters? Or just lights of a car moviing 70 meters behind your rear bumper?
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Old January 18th, 2017, 02:01 AM   #35362
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Its illegal to use your rear fog lights in anything other than fog in Britain. I think the clue to when you're supposed to use them is in the name. Yet you still get arseholes driving with them switched on in heavy rain and when its dark. They should all be shot. It also appears to be vogue to drive with your front fog lights on all the time. The biggest offenders are Nissan Juke & Qashqai drivers. Again they should all be shot.
I think the "foglights" of the Juke are actually the headlamps and the "headlamps" are only decorative accessories, similar to current model Jeep Cherokees...
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Old January 18th, 2017, 09:28 AM   #35363
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Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
What do you do, if you can see a car behind you in distance smaller than 50 meters? Or just lights of a car moviing 70 meters behind your rear bumper?
I do the same I would do in fog, even with rain. 50 m visibility is the same with fog, rain or snow, so I turn on my rear fog lights.
And the explanation about it being annoying with wet windscreen isn't credible at all...
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Old January 18th, 2017, 09:35 AM   #35364
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
And the explanation about it being annoying with wet windscreen isn't credible at all...
Next time it's rainy during the night get some glasses and walk outside. Raindrops on your glasses will drive you insane, it magnifies the lights immensly and spreads them out, simply turning it into a massive blob of light. Glass-wide. Your bright foglight(s) being the lights and your glasses being the windscreen.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #35365
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Next time it's rainy during the night get some glasses and walk outside. Raindrops on your glasses will drive you insane, it magnifies the lights immensly and spreads them out, simply turning it into a massive blob of light. Glass-wide. Your bright foglight(s) being the lights and your glasses being the windscreen.
I always wear glasses.

And windscreen wipers are there for that purpose.

What I'm trying to say is that I prefer to be seen when the conditions are extreme, even if this annoys other a little bit, than not be seen at all and be rammed from behind.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:14 PM   #35366
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
What I'm trying to say is that I prefer to be seen when the conditions are extreme, even if this annoys other a little bit, than not be seen at all and be rammed from behind.
You have regular lights for that.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:16 PM   #35367
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
You have regular lights for that.
If the visibility conditions are under 50 m, with fog you must use fog lights. I use them also with rain, that's it. I fail to see how 50 m visibility is different with fog or rain. 50 m is 50 m.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:27 PM   #35368
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I fail to see how 50 m visibility is different with fog or rain. 50 m is 50 m.
Rain is transparent, fog and snow are not.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:35 PM   #35369
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Rain is transparent, fog and snow are not.
It depends on the heaviness of rain. I can assure you that, over a certain amount, water IS NOT transparent. Otherwise you should be able to see the bottom of the ocean.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:45 PM   #35370
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You do not get it. In the situation on A9 you had already been seen, so you could switch the fog light off. It is just matter of politness and common sense
Anyway, you have not replied tp my previous post, in which I asked specific quastions.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 12:47 PM   #35371
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It depends on the heaviness of rain. I can assure you that, over a certain amount, water IS NOT transparent. Otherwise you should be able to see the bottom of the ocean.
It's called dirt/sand. That's why you can't see the bottom of the ocean. Also, light doesn't really like to go very deep into oceans due to the way water and light work. But that's hundreds of meters deep and not very relevant to the 50 meter visibility story.

I've been in some serious heavy rain, like 20km/h on the highway rain and visibility wasn't a problem because the rain, it was a problem because of the rain falling on the windscreen and dispersing on the windscreen. The rippel-effect causes the problem. Foglights in rain are annoying as shit so I can only agree with the guy behind you that kept flashing his highbeams in the hopes you'd turn them off. I'd be doing the same.

On a side-note. If you can see his high beams he's close enough for you to turn your frikken foglights off.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 01:05 PM   #35372
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
It's called dirt/sand.
That's why you can't see the bottom of the ocean.
Also, light doesn't really like to go very deep into oceans due to the way water and light work. But that's hundreds of meters deep and not very relevant to the 50 meter visibility story.
I've been in some serious heavy rain, like 20km/h on the highway rain and visibility wasn't a problem because the rain, it was a problem because of the rain falling on the windscreen and dispersing on the windscreen. The rippel-effect causes the problem. Foglights in rain are annoying as shit so I can only agree with the guy behind you that kept flashing his highbeams in the hopes you'd turn them off. I'd be doing the same.
With little to no effect, on my part. As I said, I prefer to leave the road alive, and if that means annoying some bloke I never meet again, so be it.
80 euro fine is not worth risking my life, just because some countries are **** enough to say "they are called fog light because they must be used only and exclusively in fog".

Quote:
On a side-note. If you can see his high beams he's close enough for you to turn your frikken foglights off.
If I can see his high beams it doesn't mean he can see me with my fog light off. Therefore, fog light stays on.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #35373
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80 euro fine is not worth risking my life,
"Risking your life" Geez, with a stance like that you should just stay inside... Then again, most accidents happen indoors at home. So looks like you're screwed either way

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
If I can see his high beams it doesn't mean he can see me with my fog light off.
Yes it does, no-one is going to want you to turn your foglights off if that means they can't see your car at all anymore. No matter what the condition. Fact is that rain lets through light a lot better than snow/fog, so your regular lights are more than enough for the distances we're talking about. Or are you seriously telling me that you completely can't see cars with regular lights on 50 meters in front of you in heavy rain? Your foglight in rain is annoying at best and blinding at worst, turn 'em off. Or are you the type of person that keeps their foglights on in snow/fog when in a traffic jam 'because visibility is less than 50 meters' even thought the car behind you is literally 2 meters behind you?

Also, I don't know what car you drive but if you have one of those annoying cars with 2 foglights then they're even more annoying and dangerous as they mask brakelights. Whoever approved those double-foglights is a moron.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #35374
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
"Risking your life" Geez, with a stance like that you should just stay inside... Then again, most accidents happen indoors at home. So looks like you're screwed either way
Let's compare how many people were killed in the road because they couldn't see what's ahead of them, with how many were killed because they were "blinded by fog lights"...

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Yes it does, no-one is going to want you to turn your foglights off if that means they can't see your car at all anymore.
Of course not. But how can he know if he's able to see me with my normal rear headlamps on and fog lights off?

Quote:
No matter what the condition. Fact is that rain lets through light a lot better than snow/fog, so your regular lights are more than enough for the distances we're talking about. Or are you seriously telling me that you completely can't see cars with regular lights on 50 meters in front of you in heavy rain?
It depends. I drive since 1997 and it happened to me only twice (both times in Germany, because of the lack of porous asphalt on the road), and I used rear fog lights only in one of those occasions (because on the other occasion traffic was denser and cars were closer to me).

Quote:
Your foglight in rain is annoying at best and blinding at worst, turn 'em off. Or are you the type of person that keeps their foglights on in snow/fog when in a traffic jam 'because visibility is less than 50 meters' even thought the car behind you is literally 2 meters behind you?
No, as I said before, I'm not that kind of guy. There are many people who do that, but to me it's not that annoying. It's just a lamp, not the Sun.

Quote:
Also, I don't know what car you drive but if you have one of those annoying cars with 2 foglights then they're even more annoying and dangerous as they mask brakelights. Whoever approved those double-foglights is a moron.
I agree on that. And I'm afraid my car has these twin fog lights.
They come in handy, though: I switch them on when some moron is tailgating behind me, so he thinks I braked and slows down.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 02:39 PM   #35375
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Let's compare how many people were killed in the road because they couldn't see what's ahead of them, with how many were killed because they were "blinded by fog lights"...
And in how many of the cases when people were killed because people couldn't see ahead would that have been prevented by having fog lights on during rain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Of course not. But how can he know if he's able to see me with my normal rear headlamps on and fog lights off?
Do you turn all your other lights off when you put your fog lights on? No you don't (or at least I hope you don't), so he can easily check whether you're still visible without that annoying fog light on as your regular lights don't "share" a lamp with your foglights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It depends. I drive since 1997 and it happened to me only twice (both times in Germany, because of the lack of porous asphalt on the road), and I used rear fog lights only in one of those occasions (because on the other occasion traffic was denser and cars were closer to me).
Once here, in The Netherlands. Also on a section that (back then) didn't have porous asphalt. No fog lights needed. Oh, and one occasion for use of foglights. In the polder, with ridiculous fog. Could barely see where I was driving

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I agree on that. And I'm afraid my car has these twin fog lights.
They come in handy, though: I switch them on when some moron is tailgating behind me, so he thinks I braked and slows down.
Ah, so making a dangerous situation more dangerous on purpose. Nice.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #35376
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And in how many of the cases when people were killed because people couldn't see ahead would that have been prevented by having fog lights on during rain?
Many. Because in that case you COULD see and the premise would cease to exist.

Quote:
Do you turn all your other lights off when you put your fog lights on? No you don't (or at least I hope you don't), so he can easily check whether you're still visible without that annoying fog light on as your regular lights don't "share" a lamp with your foglights.
And how would he communicate to me "I can't see you anymore"? By ramming into me. No thanks.

Quote:
Ah, so making a dangerous situation more dangerous on purpose. Nice.
I can't stand people tailgating. It's much more dangerous than any ******* light you can turn on.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 04:24 PM   #35377
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Many. Because in that case you COULD see and the premise would cease to exist.
Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. You have no proof for this. Also, as if every one of those situations was during rain, any crash during snow or fog doesn't count. Even if I blindly follow you and assume that loads of people crash in rainy weather due to a lack of foglights you show no proof on how a foglight would stop this accident from happening. You are severely overestimating the effect of a foglight... Fog lights are not brighter than brake lights. Heck, some cars even use the rear fog light and brake light in one (example) Fog lights have no extra use when you are stopped. Hazards have more use tbh. Different color, immediately grabs attention and everyone knows what they mean; slow the hell down, stopped/slow traffic/incident ahead.

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
And how would he communicate to me "I can't see you anymore"? By ramming into me. No thanks.
If he can't see you, you can't see him. If you can see someone in your rearview mirror than turn it the hell off. And if there is no one there then I still think it's useless and dumb, but at least you're not annoying someone with that useless light so who cares.

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I can't stand people tailgating. It's much more dangerous than any ******* light you can turn on.
Nothing to do with foglights. You purposefully brakecheck someone and make the situation even more dangerous. Dumb. Coming from someone that turns on his foglights in fear of being rammed from behind it's kinda weird that you would brakecheck someone, don't you think?


Also, why are you ignoring piotr71?
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Old January 18th, 2017, 04:49 PM   #35378
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Bah. If I feel in danger, I will continue to use my fog lights. Of course, trying to use them as little as possible, but I won't be stopped just because it's "rain" and not "fog".

And I don't know what should I answere piotr, I already did. Maybe I didn't understand his questions?
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Old January 18th, 2017, 05:00 PM   #35379
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At this point we've been going at it for like a full page now, I think it's best to say that we agree to disagree
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Old January 18th, 2017, 05:17 PM   #35380
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