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Old February 8th, 2017, 12:34 AM   #35541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you guys pay for car insurance?
180€/year for 2008 Ford Focus 86 kW and it's the basic one (so 15€/month).
additional 180€ would be full coverage (so 28€/month).

here it still depends of car plates, so with ZG plates i would pay 80€ per year more for basic insurance.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 01:00 AM   #35542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
There is no democracy actually in West of Europe.
Just look at all the censor and restrictions of free speech (to not offend different groups of people, usually minorities).
I don't really feel that. Every EU country has its own populist, xenofobic, conservative, euro-sceptic party/ies. They can partecipate at elections like other parties, they can make propaganda freely (maybe mainstream media don't give them a lot of space, but now with internet you can get whatever you want).

Modern Europe is advanced in what we call free debate. Of course, some extreme ideas are socially frowned upon, but yet, we enjoy more freedom of speech than most of the world. We have plenty of TV programs, websites, books, movies, conferences, that cover every possible different point of view, and are freely available to the public without any fear of prosecution. There's plenty of people who criticize minorities, despite knowing that a such behaviour is unpopular.

Anyway, we have some values that are nearly universally accepted in Western societies: individual freedom, religious tolerance, multi-party system, free market, tolerance to different ethnic groups, gender equality, tolerance to LGBT people.

It's something that started more than two centuries ago, with French and American revolutions, and gradually evolved till now, including more and more human rights, starting from the basic ones like freedom of speech or religion, up to the most recent ones, like recognition of LGBT couples or asylum to war refugees.

So, it's natural that anyone that denies those almost-universally-recognized values, will get frowned upon by the majority.
Any political party, from far right to far left, should recognize these basic principles.
I can accept a right-wing party asking for a stricter immigration control, but not asking to introduce apartheid.
I can accept a left-wing party asking for more taxes to rich people, but not asking to make a Soviet-style revolution.

Those almost-universal values are those that differentiate us, democratic and civilized societies, from uncivilized and backward ones (included some oil-rich countries we consider friends for economical interests), where tolerance and pluralism are unknown concepts, and killing for religion happens on daily basis.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 01:19 AM   #35543
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That's what you still see in some societies in 2017:

Sometimes a photo is more than 1000 words.





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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old February 8th, 2017, 01:47 AM   #35544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you guys pay for car insurance?

My 2015 Hyundai i10 insurance is only € 33 per month for full coverage (the most expensive insurance you can choose). The cheapest one (liability only) would be € 22.50 per month.

They say the Dutch car insurances are one of the cheapest in at least Western Europe. You get additional discount if you don't claim any damages (I haven't claimed anything since an accident in 2006).
I am paying 1135 EUR per year for liability only coverage on 2007 Saab 9-3 Aero (2.8 Turbo), Toronto area.

I am looking at buying another car. I inquired rate for similar age Mercedes SL 500 - 700 EUR only
I may be switching cars
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Old February 8th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #35545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you guys pay for car insurance?
I have just registered my car so the bill specification is something like this:
- car insurance (with 68 % discount, ZG area code) 1100 kn
- all-risk insurance 1550 kn
- luxury tax (paid for cars less than 10 years old) 250 kn
- road toll 180 kn
- car inspection & eco-test 330 kn
- various registration fees & pollution tax 270 kn

1 € = 7.5 kn

The car is Citroën C3, 999 cm^3, 50 kW, first registration in 2014, 52000 km so far (these data are used for calculation of the expenses).
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Old February 8th, 2017, 10:17 AM   #35546
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Nice banner today on SSC
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Old February 8th, 2017, 12:11 PM   #35547
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Why shoulders are safer: a motorist had a breakdown on A50 in the Netherlands, right at the Rhine Bridge at Renkum, which does not have any shoulders. He stopped on the right lane, climbed over the barrier to the parallel road and moments later a semi truck plowed into his car.

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Old February 8th, 2017, 02:36 PM   #35548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you guys pay for car insurance?
1094 PLN (253,66 EUR as 1 EUR=4,31 PLN) per year for almost full coverage: so-called civil liability (compulsory), assistance up to 1000 km from the place of register, health insurance for driver and passengers, additional glass insurance and limited all-risk insurance (excluding accidents that would be caused by me at all). While insurance fees increased so much, it's very cheap, as the car is registrated in the city of population approx. 160,000. 2005 Citroen C3 1.4. Road tax not included, as there's no such a tax right here (you pay it only as a part of gas price).
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 04:39 PM   #35549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you guys pay for car insurance?
.
290 EUR a year for 2016 Skoda Fabia Combi, it includes pretty much everything. Road assistance in whole Europe, including free hotel if my car breaks down and they can't get me help right away.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 04:40 PM   #35550
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Google has been using the official short name of the Czech Republic, Czechia, since 19 January 2017.

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Old February 8th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #35551
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The (not-so-recent) update of Google Maps that precluded the option to have city names all in local languages really, really bothered me.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 08:51 PM   #35552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you guys pay for car insurance?
Full insurance for my Ford Focus costs ~1,300€/year.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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Old February 9th, 2017, 12:17 AM   #35553
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I am not the poor white man who votes against everything. But what really makes me angry is how elites sometimes preach about democracy with really stupid ideas like there should be an IQ/economic test before every election, or that the election law should be guaranteed only for well educated people or people who pay taxes.
Well, paying taxes does not automatically give you the right to vote anyway.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 01:24 AM   #35554
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I wonder about this
is universal voting really fair?
You have a large quantity of voters who pay no or little net taxes. When a politician promises an expensive programme, these voters have no real cost for it. And in western countries, since Second World War that's what we've seen - dramatically increased government spending and taxation, but taxation that does not apply equally at all.

In the past voting was tied to property ownership, partly because of logistical reasons (e.g. voter registration in 18th or 19th century...) which basically meant that voters were essentially taxpayers (to an extent - since majority of tax revenue was either customs tariffs or excise taxes on alcohol)

I just ask the question I think it is something worth considering (or perhaps have something like a universally-applicable flat tax rate or the like)
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Old February 9th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #35555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I wonder about this
is universal voting really fair?
You have a large quantity of voters who pay no or little net taxes. When a politician promises an expensive programme, these voters have no real cost for it. And in western countries, since Second World War that's what we've seen - dramatically increased government spending and taxation, but taxation that does not apply equally at all.

In the past voting was tied to property ownership, partly because of logistical reasons (e.g. voter registration in 18th or 19th century...) which basically meant that voters were essentially taxpayers (to an extent - since majority of tax revenue was either customs tariffs or excise taxes on alcohol)

I just ask the question I think it is something worth considering (or perhaps have something like a universally-applicable flat tax rate or the like)
This argument is vicious, and I won't answer to someone who entertain the idea that people's worth as citizens depends on the size of their wallet.

Variations of the argument were used to justify, in the past, why women shouldn't vote ("they don't work and don't know about stuff"), or why university students shouldn't vote ("they are not working yet"), among other unacceptable exclusions of basic rights of citizenship.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 01:32 AM   #35556
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its not about someone's wealth
its more about being accountable for the decisions
for example normally a person can weigh the costs and benefits of a given programme, and may like it or not.
But when some have no costs at all, is it fair?
I don't so much like the idea of denying voting as smoothing tax rates of course
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Old February 9th, 2017, 01:47 AM   #35557
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Once in a while people write on social media things like 'there should a minimum IQ required to vote' or 'voters should pass a test to prove a minimum level of political knowledge'. I don't agree with that either, but limiting the right to vote according to tax contribution is IMHO even worse. It's very 19th-century like, when industrial and agricultural élites feared the rise of socialist-inspired parties, that asked better living and working conditions to people.
Moreover, students may pay no taxes, but they are very interested in voting, as the socio-political background may have influence on their future ablity to start a good career and thus make good money. People with already a stable job, or even less retirees, are less concerned about who is in power.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 01:52 AM   #35558
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Guys, in any country with a value-added tax (VAT, GST, whatever its name), anyone who spends some money is paying taxes. Poor people usually spend most or all their income, which then is taxed in that form.

Reducing the argument towards income tax is a ruse for people who want to advocate flat taxes (a fixed % for all income, high or very low, with no or little deductions), or, worse, people who advocate for poll/council taxes and the like (a fixed amount $/Ł/€ etc. to cover for services on a per-capita basis). Either scheme is highly regressive because it leaves out of taxation capital gains, which form the bulk of indirect income of those with highest earning in any developed country (celebrity sportsmen notwithstanding).
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Old February 9th, 2017, 02:06 AM   #35559
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in my country exists a VAT credit for people making less than X $ per year. The cutoff limit is quite a lot, maybe 30 000 EUR per annum gross income, and income tax typically starts at 10 or 11 000 EUR.
the government will send you monthly cheques of what it thinks you are spending in VAT.
When I was unemployed poor university student I'm sure the amount of VAT I paid was less than the cheque value.
But the excise taxes I paid in beer and gasoline surely exceeded it greatly !

Is a flat tax something that is unfair?

Is the current situation fair?

I don't think the answer is obvious, its time for an argument!
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Old February 9th, 2017, 02:58 AM   #35560
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Arguing about tax systems is perfectly fine, tying taxation with voting rights is inadmissible.
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