daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 14th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #35601
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6783

As "centrally heated", do you mean district heating, a city central heating system?

Because central heating is any system, even in a single house, where you have a central stove heating - usually - water, which flows through radiators in the room.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 14th, 2017, 01:29 AM   #35602
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155



I added district heatimg before I read your post.

These systems are rather called central heating than district heating in Czech and another term is used for the pipes and radiators inside the flat instead of CH. Sorry for the confusion.

I would say that around 85 % houses are with the actual central heating with radiators and around 70 % are connected to gas. You can see that more than 20 % dont use gas for heating.

Btw. Those district heating systems provide hot drinking water as well.

Last edited by Surel; February 14th, 2017 at 01:35 AM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 03:05 AM   #35603
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6783

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
These systems are rather called central heating than district heating in Czech and another term is used for the pipes and radiators inside the flat instead of CH. Sorry for the confusion.
Well... those differences between the Polish and Czech language...

For us in Polish, a system with pipes and radiators in a house is called "centralne ogrzewanie" (central heating - same as in English). For the district heating, there is no popular term. People call it "ciepło miejskie" (city heat), "ogrzewanie miejskie" (city heating), "sieć ciepłownicza" (heating network), while the operators often use the term "ciepło systemowe" (system heat).

Meanwhile, German has, as usual, a simple and easily understandable term for that - Fernwärme ("remote heat", but it doesn't sound so obvious in English, at least not to me).

Quote:
Btw. Those district heating systems provide hot drinking water as well.
Any central heating system does it. At least usually it is so (it doesn't have to, but it's just a matter of connecting a hot drinking water tank with a spiral pipe inside to the system).
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 03:19 AM   #35604
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21249

I spoke of district heating in the sense of a network of steam (or, more rarely, hot water) that is managed by a city, distributing it through different buildings. It is implemented as a way to capture the byproduct (inert steam) of thermal-based power plants.

Denmark apparently uses that system quite a lot.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 03:21 AM   #35605
AsHalt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,266
Likes (Received): 181

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Snow is the police's best friend to locate illegal cannabis growing. They are the only houses with no snow on it

Usually these people grow cannabis on a larger scale, consuming a large amount of illegally tapped electricity.

Last year I had a ceiling leakage and the police came immediately because it is often a sign of illegal cannabis growing in the apartment above (there was none though).

Busted by nature... The irony is High
AsHalt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 04:34 AM   #35606
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I spoke of district heating in the sense of a network of steam (or, more rarely, hot water) that is managed by a city, distributing it through different buildings. It is implemented as a way to capture the byproduct (inert steam) of thermal-based power plants.

Denmark apparently uses that system quite a lot.
Yes. Thats how is 38 % houses heated in CZ. Its the most efficient way of producing heat, centrally, rather than locally. All those commie housing developements were designed the way they were designed for a purpose.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 08:25 AM   #35607
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,805
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
How is it with the heating systems in your countries (I am especially talking about countries having "proper" winters with temperatures below 0 degrees or, at least, below 10 degrees)? When someone lives in a single-family house, which fuel is the most popular? Coal, oil, LPG gas/natural gas? How many small towns and suburbs have natural gas networks?
In Finland, the situation is quite mixed. The statistics from 2014, "Net effective heating energy of residential, commercial and public buildings" shows the following distribution by energy used (not by number of homes):

Small scale wood 13%
Peat negligble (less than 0.1%)
Coal negligible
Heavy fuel oil 1%
Light fuel oil 8%
Natural gas 1%
Heat pumps 14%
District heat 46%
Electricity 17%

The heat pumps are not enough during the coldest days. Therefore they typically are a secondary heat source.

The share of heating is about 25% of the total energy consumption.

The mix of the energy sources is the following (2015):

Wood 26%
Oil 23%
Nuclear 18%
Coal 9%
Natural gas 7%
Import of electricity 5%
Hydro 5%
Peat 5%
Wind 1%
Others 4%

(Rounding errors, the sum is 103%) The mix varies across years.
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 08:31 AM   #35608
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,805
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
In case of the lighting, not everyone notices that the energy which is "wasted" by a traditional light bulb is actually emitted as heat, so in winter you don't waste anything Except for the money for your electricity bill, as you could obtain the same amount of heat in a cheaper (although not necessarily more ecological) way.
It is not that straightforward. As the heat goes upwards, a bulb at the ceiling without reflectors creates about zero amount of useful heating energy.

The radiators are not by accicent put close to the floor.
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 09:16 AM   #35609
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2115

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I spoke of district heating in the sense of a network of steam (or, more rarely, hot water) that is managed by a city, distributing it through different buildings. It is implemented as a way to capture the byproduct (inert steam) of thermal-based power plants.

Denmark apparently uses that system quite a lot.
Italy too. The vast majority of houses in Brescia and Turin, for instance, are heated this way.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 09:30 AM   #35610
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,769
Likes (Received): 1039

The Hungarian word for district heating, "távfűtés" does literally mean "remote heating". This word is very common in Hungary. Approx. 15% of flats in Hungary are heated by district heating, basically the "commie blocks", wich are by the way called "panelház" = "panel house" in Hungarian because they are built of prefabricated concrete panels.
District heating is very unpopular in Hungary because it is often controlled centrally. In a sunny day in February you see that west side windows are all open because the flats are heavily heated and temperature is near to 30 degrees Celsius - on the other side in cold May days people wear a coat even in the flat. District heating was widely modernized in the 2000s and '10s so that those issues are much less common than 20-30 years ago but did not completely disappear.
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 10:50 AM   #35611
volodaaaa
Registered User
 
volodaaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 3,241
Likes (Received): 1755

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
The Hungarian word for district heating, "távfűtés" does literally mean "remote heating". This word is very common in Hungary. Approx. 15% of flats in Hungary are heated by district heating, basically the "commie blocks", wich are by the way called "panelház" = "panel house" in Hungarian because they are built of prefabricated concrete panels.
District heating is very unpopular in Hungary because it is often controlled centrally. In a sunny day in February you see that west side windows are all open because the flats are heavily heated and temperature is near to 30 degrees Celsius - on the other side in cold May days people wear a coat even in the flat. District heating was widely modernized in the 2000s and '10s so that those issues are much less common than 20-30 years ago but did not completely disappear.
Same here. The district heating system distributes a hot tap water too. But sometimes it turns off from 22.00 to 5.00.
volodaaaa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #35612
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,805
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
The district heating system distributes a hot tap water too.
Really?

I do not know how the system work elsewhere, but in the Finnish system, the district heating does not distribute water at all, energy only: The water from the power plant to houses and back runs in a closed circuit. In the houses, the water is fed through a heat exchanger. The heat exchanger warms up the water in the radiators (again a closed circuit), and the cold drinking water coming from the water supplier. Thus, the heat water does not touch the tap water:

__________________

Suburbanist, Rebasepoiss, Kpc21 liked this post
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 01:53 PM   #35613
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21249

I have learned that Norway, contrary to all other European countries with persistent seasonal cold weather, relies very heavily on electric-feed heaters to irradiate heat. That is quite unusual elsewhere (except in places like Malta where heavy cold is rare).
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 02:33 PM   #35614
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,805
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have learned that Norway, contrary to all other European countries with persistent seasonal cold weather, relies very heavily on electric-feed heaters to irradiate heat.
The reason is simple: Almost unlimited supply of hydroelectric power.
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #35615
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,819
Likes (Received): 1821

In Estonia around 60% of households have district heating but apparently in Denmark it's even higher at 65%.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 04:23 PM   #35616
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,259
Likes (Received): 18311

In Romania you usually either:
- get it directly from the state
- have your own Gas Condensing Boiler in your household
- use wood if there is no gas available (mostly only in villages)
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #35617
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6783

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I do not know how the system work elsewhere, but in the Finnish system, the district heating does not distribute water at all, energy only: The water from the power plant to houses and back runs in a closed circuit. In the houses, the water is fed through a heat exchanger. The heat exchanger warms up the water in the radiators (again a closed circuit), and the cold drinking water coming from the water supplier. Thus, the heat water does not touch the tap water:

Same in Poland. By the way, similar heat exchangers are used practically everywhere where tap water is heated by means of central heating (even talking about local central heating, not district heating), so that the central heating water is not mixed with the tap water. The central heating water is used in a closed circuit - either actually closed one, which is under pressure (typical for gas heating), or open in the meaning of that in cases when the water starts to boil, it will not cause an explosion, but just overflow to the sewer (typical for solid fuel/coal heating - because it is less controllable).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have learned that Norway, contrary to all other European countries with persistent seasonal cold weather, relies very heavily on electric-feed heaters to irradiate heat. That is quite unusual elsewhere (except in places like Malta where heavy cold is rare).
Is electricity so cheap compared to energy from other fuels in Norway that people no bother with any other heating systems?

I understand that people in Norway are basically rich compared to other Europeans, so they would spend a smaller proportion of their incomes on their electricity bills assuming the prices are similar to other European countries, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't want to save money anyway...
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 06:01 PM   #35618
volodaaaa
Registered User
 
volodaaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 3,241
Likes (Received): 1755

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Really?

I do not know how the system work elsewhere, but in the Finnish system, the district heating does not distribute water at all, energy only: The water from the power plant to houses and back runs in a closed circuit. In the houses, the water is fed through a heat exchanger. The heat exchanger warms up the water in the radiators (again a closed circuit), and the cold drinking water coming from the water supplier. Thus, the heat water does not touch the tap water:
The situation here is slightly different. You can either heat by district heating, local heating or solid fuel.

The district heating produce a hot water in a separate building called heating plant. The hot water is then distributed to blocks of flats and then to separate flats in form of hot tap water and hot heating water. I don't know if there are separate pipes but I guess yes because heating water can get easily contaminated. This is very typical for commie blocks of flats.

The local heating is similar, but the hot water is made in your flat. You have a gas boiler with a heat exchanger that is able to turn cold water into hot one. I have one that is fully automated. There is a thermostat in the coldest room of my flat (a corridor) with a control panel with two temperature pre-sets. It warms up cold tap water (I do not have a reservoir, so it takes a short time to start) but also has an isolated cycle of heating water. By using a special tap, you can easily increase the pressure of heating water as the cycle is connected with cold tap water.

In contrary to district heating it has several pros and cons. The good thing is you have heat whenever you need it (and you save gas when you don't need it), the bad thing the maintenance costs something. It is also not very aesthetic, however we concealed it inside our kitchen counter.

The older version are so called gas heaters (not my flat) that are quite dangerous (the gas is burned directly in each room - you have to have a gas network all around your flat) and also old water heaters (the same, but especially dangerous in humid bathrooms, where they produces CO if the burning is not perfect).

And then you can use also electricity, coal or wood.
__________________
Been/drove my car in: SK, CZ, D, A, H, PL, I, F, E, RSM, CH, FL, SLO, HR, SRB, BiH, MK, GR, BG, RO


Rebasepoiss liked this post

Last edited by volodaaaa; February 14th, 2017 at 06:13 PM.
volodaaaa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 11:17 PM   #35619
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,805
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
The district heating produce a hot water in a separate building called heating plant. The hot water is then distributed to blocks of flats and then to separate flats in form of hot tap water and hot heating water.
Sounds a risky business. It might be difficult to keep the temperature at 51 degrees or higher. Delivering water colder than that equals to saying welcome to the Legionella bacteria.

Quote:
The local heating is similar, but the hot water is made in your flat. You have a gas boiler with a heat exchanger that is able to turn cold water into hot one. I have one that is fully automated.
Here, detached and semi-detached houses outside the coverage of the district energy are often equipped with a hot water heater. It is kind of a heat battery. There are several variants by purpose and by energy source. Typically there are models of 150-300 litres for making hot water, and 1000-2000 litres for heating the house, too. Usually, they are heated at night when the electricity is cheaper. Many models are for multi-sources: In addition to electricity, they may be connected to a heat pump, and a wood stove, for instance. Such devices are uncommon in blocks of flats.

At my countryside secondary home, the water is taken from the lake during the summer season (May-October), except the drinking water. The warm water is done in a boiler of 30 liters, taking 2 kW of electricity. That amount is usually enough, especially after implementing certain water-saving arrangements in the bathroom. (The drinking water is carried from the local supermarket in bottles of 5 liters, enough for a weekend. Cheaper than setting up a filter system.)
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2017, 11:45 PM   #35620
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6783

I don't think the hot water actually comes directly from the heating plants in Slovakia, I suppose it is done with the heat exchangers, as MattiG has shown. Although anyway, the hot water from the district heating must be hot enough to heat up the tap water to such a temperature that it will kill Legionella.

From what I know, on larger distances, steam is distributed instead of water. Sometimes you can see such pipes in the city: https://goo.gl/maps/n7fuUqeM3wt and from what I guess, they actually carry not water but steam (when there is a hole and a small leakage, you can see steam coming from it).

Or here, you can see the pipes just coming from the plant (it produces heat and electricity):



This steam used to be used by production companies for production processes to, but it is not delivered to them any more, and if they need steam for production, they had to install local boilers.
__________________

AsHalt liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium