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Old February 15th, 2017, 01:13 AM   #35621
Surel
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I don't think the hot water actually comes directly from the heating plants in Slovakia, I suppose it is done with the heat exchangers, as MattiG has shown. Although anyway, the hot water from the district heating must be hot enough to heat up the tap water to such a temperature that it will kill Legionella.
There are heat exchanges indeed. However, the scale can differ. There might be bigger heating exchanges that provide heat and warm water to several housing blocks, or there can be heat exchangers for a single block, in fact you could even install a private heating exchanger in a suitable locality.

In fact there might be several exchanges in the system. The system first uses high pressure steam, then low pressure steam and finally hot tap and heating water. Very nice clickable scheme with photos (in the box) here: http://www.tscr.cz/schema/?ids=10&h=550&idp=5

It might be difficult to find an fair way how to bill individual flats for the heat in housing blocks, although some of the problems arise also with individual heating system (e.g. gas).

Some of the combine electricity + heat production systems can work with 90 - 97 % efficiency of energy conversion (40 % electricity, 50 % heat).

There are more than 10 000 kms of heat pipelines in the Czech republic. The heating is obviously also used on the industrial scale and for industrial purposes (Industrial consumption is twice the total consumption of the households). Another nice scheme here: http://www.teplarna-cb.cz/files/tepl...les/schema.gif

One of the biggest systems is the heating system provided by the Mělník power plant to Prague. Two 1.2 m diameter pipes connect the power plant with some 250 000 households some 35 km down in Prague. This heatpipe uses water as a medium at 90 - 140 degrees C. The maximum heat output can reach some 650 MW. This is a map of Prague's distance heating system: http://docplayer.cz/docs-images/41/3...images/8-0.jpg
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Old February 15th, 2017, 01:38 AM   #35622
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It might be difficult to find an fair way how to bill individual flats for the heat in housing blocks, although some of the problems arise also with individual heating system (e.g. gas).
What is normally used in housing blocks for billing the heat, are "heat dividers" installed on the radiators:



They work in such a way, that they have a liquid, an amount of which evaporates in an amount which depends on the amount of heat delivered by the radiator.

But there are controversies about them. For example, when someone lives in the middle of the block, the apartment is heated by the neighboring apartments, and his apartment will often be warm even if the radiator is turned off (the valve is closed) all the time, or almost all the time. But his neighbors pay for this heat.
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Old February 15th, 2017, 02:07 AM   #35623
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I have learned that Norway, contrary to all other European countries with persistent seasonal cold weather, relies very heavily on electric-feed heaters to irradiate heat. That is quite unusual elsewhere (except in places like Malta where heavy cold is rare).
Quebec, Canada is same due to inexpensive hydroelectricity. Wood though is commonly used in Canada for heating, especially as an auxiliary use (either fireplace or stove, but to supplement other fuel)

Neighboring and typically warmer Ontario, Canada has now electric prices over 4x as much as Quebec (in past, was approximately equal). We all have natural-gas fired forced-air furnaces generally. In the past, "heating oil" (diesel fuel dyed red) was very common, but since oil price shock since 2003, it is rare.

Coal is plentiful and inexpensive in North America but people haven't used that in private homes since before Second World War. It was interesting to me to learn people used this still in Europe The ubiquity of hydronic heating in Europe is curious too. Residential construction in North America is almost entirely forced-air for decades now (furnace direct to air, no boiler or water). Large buildings especially apartment blocks have hydronic systems typically though, where heat is billed as a general fee (not per use) or included in rent.

Insulation and technology is very interesting. I lately changed my detached house of 1968 with "mid" efficiency natural gas forced-air heating with natural ventilation (flue) (circa 1995), albeit upgraded with efficient windows, to a house built in 2012 (more living area) with the high efficiency natural gas forced-air furnace (condensing-type). I'm in a marginally warmer climate paying similar gas prices (somewhat more expensive per m^3 gazu), but my $250 - $275 winter monthly gas bills are now like $75
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Old February 15th, 2017, 09:47 AM   #35624
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It might be difficult to find an fair way how to bill individual flats for the heat in housing blocks, although some of the problems arise also with individual heating system (e.g. gas).
In the Finnish system, one or more houses typically are organized into a housing company. The company buys the district heating and water. Typically, there are two drivers to allocate the cost to the individual flats: The water fee per number of residents, and the running fee per square meters (or number of shares). It is quite a simple way, and widely accepted.

(The number of shares as the driver is commonly used in blocks of flats having lifts. A 100 sqm flat at the first floor might have 200 shares while a similar flat at the 10th floor might have 220 ones. Thus, those ones gaining more benefit from the lift pay a little more to cover the maintenance cost of the lift.)
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Old February 15th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #35625
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In Poland, there are two systems of managing multi-family houses, like blocks or tenement houses, if the apartments are owned by individuals rather than rented from the owner. It may be a housing cooperative (spółdzielnia mieszkaniowa) or a housing community (wspólnota mieszkaniowa).

Housing communities are simpler. They work in such a way that the owner of an apartment has a share in the community corresponding to the metrage of the apartment. All the decisions are taken on meetings of members (so, all the apartment owners) by voting and the power of the votes depends on the share.

A housing cooperative works more like a company or a corporation. It has a board of directors, it is usually big, and the owners of apartments have little influence on all the decisions. A few years ago, we had a situation in Łódź with a big housing cooperative going bankrupt.

A community is by definition a single building (or, actually, a single plot of ground), a cooperative usually manages a group of many buildings.
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Old February 16th, 2017, 08:42 PM   #35626
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In Poland, there are two systems of managing multi-family houses, like blocks or tenement houses, if the apartments are owned by individuals rather than rented from the owner. It may be a housing cooperative (spółdzielnia mieszkaniowa) or a housing community (wspólnota mieszkaniowa).

Housing communities are simpler. They work in such a way that the owner of an apartment has a share in the community corresponding to the metrage of the apartment. All the decisions are taken on meetings of members (so, all the apartment owners) by voting and the power of the votes depends on the share.

A housing cooperative works more like a company or a corporation. It has a board of directors, it is usually big, and the owners of apartments have little influence on all the decisions. A few years ago, we had a situation in Łódź with a big housing cooperative going bankrupt.

A community is by definition a single building (or, actually, a single plot of ground), a cooperative usually manages a group of many buildings.
It is exactly the same. We can have either hosing community (it is more like a company, you even get the ID number). It has an executive board. But you have to have reliable neighbours as everything is on you and your neighbours.

The services of the facility management company are more expensive, but the company does a lot of stuff instead of you. The quality depends on communication. For such reason a function of so called house delegate is adopted. That's our case. We pay 6 €/flat/month which is okay.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 12:23 PM   #35627
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How much do you pay for maintenance of the building, electricity in the staircase and so on?
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Old February 17th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #35628
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I pay € 28 per month for all services (sewage unclogging, electricity, cleaning of shared spaces, glass insurance, housekeeping and repairs).
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Old February 17th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #35629
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I pay 10€/month for everything of shared spaces (including the lift) + my water consumption. The price is acceptable.
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Old February 18th, 2017, 09:40 AM   #35630
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152 / month

But don't get scared, there is a mortgage for building renovation. Out of it, 27 € are the maintenance cost you have mentioned. There are 6 flats and since some costs are fix, it is cheaper for bigger buildings with more owners
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Old February 18th, 2017, 03:57 PM   #35631
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152 / month

But don't get scared, there is a mortgage for building renovation. Out of it, 27 € are the maintenance cost you have mentioned. There are 6 flats and since some costs are fix, it is cheaper for bigger buildings with more owners
The budget proporal for our housing company shows the total cost of about 150,000 eur. 25 flats, average about 100 sqm, makes about 500 eur per flat per month in avegare. It includes everything but home electricity and internet. The biggest chunk is the basics: heat, water in, water out, waste and company electricity (outside lights, car heating etc), almost 45%.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 01:44 AM   #35632
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What is the oldest continuously inhabited city in your country? In Slovenia it's Ptuj, first written mention in year 69 (although the place was inhabited already around 1,800 BC). It had over 100,000 inhabitants in Roman times (Poetovio), now it has just 18,000.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 03:27 AM   #35633
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Here in the Netherlands I think it should be Maastricht, settled at Roman times and, to the extent of my knowledge, never abandoned.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 05:18 AM   #35634
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In Poland it's said to be Kalisz - it appeared in some ancient Roman documents.

It seems it appeared in a Ptolemy's work in 158 C.E.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calisia

I am not sure, but from what I know, the next times when Polish cities were mentioned in any documents were in the Middle Ages, after 966 C.E. (Poland's baptism - the moment when we converted to Christianity as a country, or actually, our duke did).
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Old February 19th, 2017, 09:30 AM   #35635
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In France, it seems that it is Béziers, which has been built by some athenians 600 years BC. Marseille has been built only few years after that, and Paris and Lyon have been built by romans during the century BC, and they were based on some older Gallic villages (for Paris traces have been found of inhabitants in the area from around 4.000 BC, and traces of hunters/pickers from around 8.000 BC).
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Old February 19th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #35636
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Wikipedia says that Marseille is slightly older than Béziers.

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Old February 19th, 2017, 12:11 PM   #35637
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officialy it is Stari Grad on island Hvar (in antique times known as Pharos), dates from 384 b.C.
Pula is also ancient, old Castello dates from around 1000 year b.C. but the oldest written prove (that only can be official and credible) says 177 b.C.
third story is about Vinkovci (Cibalae), cca 8000 years old, but no written proves of course, only archaeological reliquiae.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #35638
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Wikipedia says that Marseille is slightly older than Béziers.
The english version is incomplete. In the french versions they are telling it, not "slightly older" but built during the same century, with an actual advantage to Béziers according to the architectural discoveries made since 1980... But like all history it is subject to interpretation depending of the historians/archeologists....
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Old February 19th, 2017, 11:29 PM   #35639
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Why not take a bicycle trip on a motorway in your underwear?



The police wants to press charges against this vlogger.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #35640
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officialy it is Stari Grad on island Hvar (in antique times known as Pharos), dates from 384 b.C.
Pula is also ancient, old Castello dates from around 1000 year b.C. but the oldest written prove (that only can be official and credible) says 177 b.C.
third story is about Vinkovci (Cibalae), cca 8000 years old, but no written proves of course, only archaeological reliquiae.
I've heard of Stari Grad, but what about Zadar? Isn't it very old as well?
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