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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:23 PM   #35701
ChrisZwolle
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From what I understand Ukrainian is closer to Polish than Russian. I've read some Ukrainian on Wikipedia and I noticed similarities with Polish, even though my knowledge of both languages is limited.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:23 PM   #35702
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Slovenian and Albanian are closer to each other than Russian and Polish?
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:31 PM   #35703
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I also seriously doubt Slovak is spoken by less than 300,000 people...
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:41 PM   #35704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I also seriously doubt Slovak is spoken by less than 300,000 people...
Slovak (SVK) appears to be in the 300,000-3,000,000 range.
There is a SR near Czech spoken by less than 300,000, but I don't know which language is, maybe a Czech dialect?

EDIT: According to Wikipedia, Slovak is spoken by 5,500,000 people, so it's wrong anyway.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:47 PM   #35705
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Experience told me that too many times, graphs, thematic maps from non-scientific, non-professional websites or social media, are highly approximated and full of mistakes.
Same for 90% articles starting with: '10 reasons why...', '10 best...', '10 worst...', etc... they're usually full of highly stereotypized information, copy-pasted from website to website without any sort of fact-checking.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 08:12 PM   #35706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Slovak (SVK) appears to be in the 300,000-3,000,000 range.
There is a SR near Czech spoken by less than 300,000, but I don't know which language is, maybe a Czech dialect?

EDIT: According to Wikipedia, Slovak is spoken by 5,500,000 people, so it's wrong anyway.
Yes, so the second map I linked is probably more accurate on this exact point (but it's too big to be posted here directly) : https://alternativetransport.files.w...1-mid-size.png
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 08:24 PM   #35707
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There is a SR near Czech spoken by less than 300,000, but I don't know which language is, maybe a Czech dialect?
It must be Sorbian. Sorbs are a slav minority in Eastern Germany. Stanislaw Tillich, the current prime minister of Saxony is a sorb.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 08:28 PM   #35708
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When I lived in other countries/places, I often made the mistake of not visiting "nearby" attractions, because they were always there to be seen another time. I am not repeating this mistake with interesting things to see in the Netherlands, especially in what concerns landscapes, infrastructure, history and art.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 08:32 PM   #35709
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I have never been to Keukenhof. Or Kinderdijk. Or Anne Frank House. Or palaces and castles. Or Kröller-Müller Museum. Or basically any other famous museum (except the Railroad Museum).
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 08:51 PM   #35710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have never been to Keukenhof. Or Kinderdijk. Or Anne Frank House. Or palaces and castles. Or Kröller-Müller Museum. Or basically any other famous museum (except the Railroad Museum).
I get why Kinderdijk might not be that popular with Dutch natives, since the landscape and the windmills are not that unique for those used to the country.

The Kröller-Muller is very impressive, though, both the collection and the massive sculpture/open-air art garden.

I have a Museum card that allows unlimited visits to most museums and monuments in the country for a mere € 60/year. I have probably used it for entrance fees worth well above € 800 over last 12 months.

Curiously, Zwolle has very few of such attractions, there are noteworthy museums in Kempen and Assen though.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 09:04 PM   #35711
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I'm more appealed by spectacular scenery than a museum or Dutch landscapes and architecture. Hence, I spend my vacations in places like Norway, the Alps or the Pyrenees. Though I occassionally do a city trip (last year I went to Schwerin and San Sebastián).
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 09:10 PM   #35712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
The main issue for foreigners in Hungarian are double letters which sign a single syllable. Examples:
"cs": like "ch" in English, "č" in many slav languages.
"ny": like "ñ" in Spanish, "nj" in German.
CZ and Ń in Polish

By the way, does the "zs" means the sound of the "s" in measure, pleasure, leisure (Polish "ż" or "rz")? It was a strange connection I never knew how to pronounce.

Quote:
That "y" is the most misleading one: it makes the previous consonant softer and must not be pronounced like an "i" in "it" - actually it must not be pronounced at all.
So it would be equivalent to the Polish dash above the Ń, Ć, DŹ, Ś, Ź, I told about in my last post.

By the way, in Polish, this dash is not written when there is "i" after the consonant. Then, the "i" already indicates that the consonant is soft and there is no need for dash. There is very few exceptions being foreign loan words, when the 'i" does not soften the consonant.

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They said like "Kseeksomleeo" which is very wrong. The proper pronounciation is like "Cheekshomyo" ("Čikšomjo" if you're Serb/Croat/Czech/Slovak, "Czikszoml'o" if you're Polish, "Tschiekschomjoh", if you're German :-)).
Does the L in the word mean anything? Why do you write L in Polish, when the Polish equivalent of German J (English Y) or, I believe, also the J from the other Slavic languages, is also J? L in Polish is same as L in English, German etc. ... It's pronounced the same way (or almost the same, sometimes it goes towards the Polish Ł or English W) in probably all the languages using Latin alphabet.

In Portuguese, when L is at the end of the word, it's pronounced as Polish Ł or English W. I was on a Portuguese course in Germany (only one semester) and the teacher was explaining that it should be pronounced as U Because German has no Ł/W sound and U is, in this situation, closest.

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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Yes, it is their purpose. The length of the letter is significant: "Kisa" and "kissa" are different words, as well as "takka" and "taakka". The diacritics are significant, too: the letter "a" and "o" are not the same as "ä" and "ö". "Pelata" and "pelätä" are two verbs having a different meaning.
In Polish we do not distinguish the sounds by their length, but Hungarians... denote the length by diacritics.

By the way, not many languages have diacritics for the nasal vowels. I know that Portuguese has them, apart from Polish (although they look differently in Portuguese - in Polish we have a "tail" added to the letter, in Portuguese there is a wave above it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimróad View Post
'Gy' is D in the During word or slavic Đ, d'
I have always pronounced "during" with just a normal D... Maybe I did it wrong. Actually, there is "y" sound after the "d" in "during", it must kind of soften it...

Because from what I understand, it's equivalent to the Polish DŹ.

The question here is, is it a softened D or a softened DZ or DŻ (I am talking about the Polish spelling of the sounds, for lack of English or German equivalents - ok, German has DSCH for our DŻ).

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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
"Gy" is even softer than "Đ". "Magyar" is not pronounced the same as "Mađar".
Yeah... so it will be equivalent to DŹ. A sometimes used slang word for Hungarians in Polish is "madziar", exactly the same as the Hungarian word for Hungarian.

By the way... you Hungarians call us Poles Lengyels Not many languages use this name.

The name Polska, Poland, Polish comes from a tribe called in Polish Polanie (Polans?). Which probably comes from "polana" - a forest meadow.

Lengyel - from a tribe called in Polish Lędzianie (a nasal vowel and a soft consonant - no way to express it in English spelling... something like Lengyans if you use the Hungarian spelling and approximate the nasal "ę" by "en"). From what it comes - I am not sure. My guess is from "ląd" - which has a meaning similar to "land". But let's ask auntie Wikipedia... Polish one, why not, let the other Slavs check what they are able to understand I will translate it below.

Quote:
Lędzianie (*lęd-jan-inъ) pochodzi z prasłowiańskiego oraz staropolskiego słowa "lęda" oznaczającego obszar, równinę, pole nieuprawne przeznaczone lub nadające się pod uprawę roli[5][6]. W dzisiejszej polszczyźnie od tego słowa wywodzi się słowo "ląd" oznaczające "ziemię". Nazwa plemienia wywodzi się bezpośrednio z gospodarki żarowo wypaleniskowej polegającej na wycinaniu i wypalaniu lasów w celu przygotowania terenu pod pola uprawne[6]. Zgodnie z tym znaczeniem Lędzianin oznaczał rolnika, "wypalacza lasów"[7].
Quote:
Lędzianie (*lęd-jan-inъ) comes from the proto-Slavic and old-Polish word "lęda", meaning an area, a non-farming field good for farming. In modern Polish, the word "ląd" meaning "land" derives from it. The name of the tribe comes directly from a kind of economy based on cutting trees and burning forests in order to prepare the fields for farming. According to this, Lędzianin (singular of Lędzianie in Polish) means a farmer, a "fire burner".
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
It must be Sorbian. Sorbs are a slav minority in Eastern Germany. Stanislaw Tillich, the current prime minister of Saxony is a sorb.
This is the language which is closest to Polish in general. Although... almost nobody in Poland knows about its existence It was a surprise to me when I discovered it.

Last edited by Kpc21; February 22nd, 2017 at 09:16 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 09:13 PM   #35713
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Greek seems to be very lonely aswell
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 09:31 PM   #35714
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Oh cool, one of those endless discussions about languages... I kinda miss them.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 10:04 PM   #35715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanT View Post
Greek seems to be very lonely aswell
That's why we say "it is all Greek to me"
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:25 PM   #35716
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That's why we say "it is all Greek to me"
We say 'it's Arabic to me'.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:33 PM   #35717
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That's funny, in french we say "c'est du chinois" = "it's chinese" ( https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%AAtre_du_chinois )
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:33 PM   #35718
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Same in Dutch.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 12:10 AM   #35719
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And in Spanish. In Chinese they say it's a celestial language.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 12:22 AM   #35720
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We say "it's a Spanish village to me", even though it has nothing to do with any village.
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