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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:35 PM   #35781
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:49 PM   #35782
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It means nothing, it is just local entrepreneurs wishing to supply market needs

I've been propositioned to buy drugs walking on the streets of all kinds of cities where such things are prohibited for whatever reasons...
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Old February 27th, 2017, 04:25 AM   #35783
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So I'm looking at these language courses offered at my new job in Norway. We don't need to learn Norwegian but it obviously is of immense help, and prevents social isolation outside the job.

Then, I realize there are two Norwegian languages, and that I need to pick up one of them to learn. I knew there were some minimally spoken sami-related languages in the north, but I will live in Bergen, I hadn't imagined they had two official versions of Norwegian.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 08:14 AM   #35784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
So I'm looking at these language courses offered at my new job in Norway. We don't need to learn Norwegian but it obviously is of immense help, and prevents social isolation outside the job.

Then, I realize there are two Norwegian languages, and that I need to pick up one of them to learn. I knew there were some minimally spoken sami-related languages in the north, but I will live in Bergen, I hadn't imagined they had two official versions of Norwegian.
It is all about the history and the national pride. Questions based on those are difficult to solve.

Norway was under the Danish rule for centuries, and the written language was based on Danish. The upper class looked down on the Norwegian dialects. In 1814, Sweden took over Norway, and the nationalism begun to raise in Norway. People wanted to get rid of the trail of the old ruler, but not, of course, to adopt Swedish, because Sweden was seen an intruder, too. In such a political and cultural climate, two competing versions of the written language arised: Riksmĺl, which was based on the Danish ortography, and Landsmĺl based on the western dialects.

The name of Landsmĺl reflects its origin. It got its current name Nynorsk in 1929, and Riksmĺl was renamed to Bokmĺl.

It is up to the municipality to decide on which variant is in use as the primary one. A number of municipalities have declared neutral. Even if the 'market share' of Nynorsk is high in the western provinces, it still is a minority language in the context of the whole Norway. Like in Belgium, the language question might turn a hot spot among the locals, although being inexplicable to the foreigners. Be careful.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 10:27 AM   #35785
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To what extent are they mutually intelligible?
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Old February 27th, 2017, 12:36 PM   #35786
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Langauge map of Norway:



Bergen appears to be within Nynorsk majority area.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 12:47 AM   #35787
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So I'm looking at these language courses offered at my new job in Norway. We don't need to learn Norwegian but it obviously is of immense help, and prevents social isolation outside the job.

Then, I realize there are two Norwegian languages, and that I need to pick up one of them to learn. I knew there were some minimally spoken sami-related languages in the north, but I will live in Bergen, I hadn't imagined they had two official versions of Norwegian.
You've never noticed "Norsk bokmĺl" and "Norsk nynorsk" in Wikipedia (on the left side among languages)? I wonder if you've noticed "Slovenčina" (Slovak) and "Slovenščina" (Slovene).
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Old February 28th, 2017, 01:30 AM   #35788
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It's equally easy to notice as that there is Chinese Traditional and Chinese Simplified

Not only Wikipedia, also online translators and dictionaries.

By the way, for me it's quite exotic that people in different parts of the country, speaking officially one language, speak it differently and the differences increase with increasing distance. Because, from what I understand, it is so in Scandinavia (and in the former Yugoslavia countries too).

In Poland we theoretically have different dialects, but - maybe with some minor exceptions - nobody really uses them to communicate. Maybe among elder people in the countryside, and in Upper Silesia too. In most cases people speak just "normally" in Polish, in the same Polish as spoken on TV. There are words for some things used specifically in some areas, but speaking dialect is something like wearing a folk costume. Nobody does it except for folk festivals and other events like that. There are exceptions, but there are also exceptions concerning folk costumes. I know that in Łowicz, for example, kids going to their first communion (which is quite an important event here, involving having a family party and getting presents - no idea how about other countries and about the Christian religions other than Catholicism) can choose between wearing a standard alb and a folk costume.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 02:25 AM   #35789
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By the way, for me it's quite exotic that people in different parts of the country, speaking officially one language, speak it differently and the differences increase with increasing distance. Because, from what I understand, it is so in Scandinavia (and in the former Yugoslavia countries too).
Well, small Slovenia is very diverse in dialects. I hardly understand people in some parts, especially in the northeast.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 02:26 AM   #35790
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It's probably why people from those countries are so good in foreign languages

They just have guessing what someone else is saying in their blood.

Anyway, even in Poland, I notice that people living close to the Czech or Slovak border (to the eastern border too) can more or less communicate with people from those countries, and for me - I am from central Poland - it's quite difficult to get any understanding of what Czechs/Slovaks/Ukrainians/Belarussians are saying.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 05:44 AM   #35791
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Quote:
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In Poland we theoretically have different dialects, but - maybe with some minor exceptions - nobody really uses them to communicate. Maybe among elder people in the countryside, and in Upper Silesia too. In most cases people speak just "normally" in Polish, in the same Polish as spoken on TV. There are words for some things used specifically in some areas, but speaking dialect is something like wearing a folk costume. Nobody does it except for folk festivals and other events like that. There are exceptions, but there are also exceptions concerning folk costumes. I know that in Łowicz, for example, kids going to their first communion (which is quite an important event here, involving having a family party and getting presents - no idea how about other countries and about the Christian religions other than Catholicism) can choose between wearing a standard alb and a folk costume.
I wonder how much of this is due to 20th century history of Poland with some very large population shifts (from east to west)
I did my part to keep them going, I asked for directions to the "autobana" in Chojnow once

In France many dialects existed at one point, but there was various efforts from the government against them. In Canada, the dialects (of French) never really existed because the colonists came from various regions of France and couldn't understand each other, so followed "royal" French. I am told a lot of the pronounciation of Canadian French (like the moé and toé) is closer to what the king of France would say than the standard Parisian "moi et toi"
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Old February 28th, 2017, 11:44 AM   #35792
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You would be surprised on how much differently people in various parts of Italy speak, setting aside dialects which are real languages.

I was watching an episode of Masterchef Italy, there is a girl from Siciliy that nobody can understand (me neither) even though she speaks Italian and not Sicilian... it's the way vowels are pronounced, mostly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
It's equally easy to notice as that there is Chinese Traditional and Chinese Simplified

Not only Wikipedia, also online translators and dictionaries.

By the way, for me it's quite exotic that people in different parts of the country, speaking officially one language, speak it differently and the differences increase with increasing distance. Because, from what I understand, it is so in Scandinavia (and in the former Yugoslavia countries too).

In Poland we theoretically have different dialects, but - maybe with some minor exceptions - nobody really uses them to communicate. Maybe among elder people in the countryside, and in Upper Silesia too. In most cases people speak just "normally" in Polish, in the same Polish as spoken on TV. There are words for some things used specifically in some areas, but speaking dialect is something like wearing a folk costume. Nobody does it except for folk festivals and other events like that. There are exceptions, but there are also exceptions concerning folk costumes. I know that in Łowicz, for example, kids going to their first communion (which is quite an important event here, involving having a family party and getting presents - no idea how about other countries and about the Christian religions other than Catholicism) can choose between wearing a standard alb and a folk costume.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #35793
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It's the same with northern France (Hauts de France region) some of them have a very strong accent that make them hard to understand...

And its also the case of southern France, some also have a big accent with strange sounding like for example they sometimes spell consonants at the end of some words where it don't actually exist...

But we do understand each others. We have also regional languages but they are very insignificant compared to french, if some are speaking those regional languages, they also speaks normal french....
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Old March 1st, 2017, 12:47 AM   #35794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
By the way, for me it's quite exotic that people in different parts of the country, speaking officially one language, speak it differently and the differences increase with increasing distance. Because, from what I understand, it is so in Scandinavia (and in the former Yugoslavia countries too).
That's so called dialect continuum and all South Slavic languages form a dialect continuum and it goes from West to East. For example person from my country can easily understand Serbian or Bulgarian standard language, but not Slovene or some Croatian dialects.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 12:04 PM   #35795
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It appears there are less dialectal differences in Spanish, as we don't have a ton of vowels, just the five. However those differences still exist: For example in Andalusia they pronounce s and z the same way, while here in Northern Spain we pronounce them differently.
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It's the same with northern France (Hauts de France region) some of them have a very strong accent that make them hard to understand...
I like how that region is called "Upper France" despite being nowhere near the Alps (The true "upper" metropolitan France, although far from historical France). I don't recognize that region, however, I still go with Picardie for the Southern part of it and Nord-Pas de Calais for the Northern part. Same with others except Normandie.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 04:33 PM   #35796
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Some minor differences are also in Polish, but someone speaking the dialect is usually considered uneducated or coming from the countryside.

And there are things for which there are different words used in different parts of the country. The most recognizable is probably the word for a kind of bread made of wheat flour only (normally, the bread in Poland is made of two kinds of flour together: wheat and rye). For me it's angielka (which is just a feminine noun for "English", e.g. a woman from England is also Angielka), but in other regions it's called "bułka paryska" (Paris bread roll) or in many different other ways.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 06:45 PM   #35797
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we have huge differences in dialects. extremes would be if 2 people, one from Krapina, another one from some Dalmatian island (or even Split) would talk in dialects, they woudn't understand each other at all. dunno, some Hungarian guy could join them so there would be 3 people not understanding each other at all.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 09:31 PM   #35798
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Quote:
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I like how that region is called "Upper France" despite being nowhere near the Alps (The true "upper" metropolitan France, although far from historical France). I don't recognize that region, however, I still go with Picardie for the Southern part of it and Nord-Pas de Calais for the Northern part. Same with others except Normandie.
Not for us, we do have a lot of departments with such names like (Hauts-de-Seine, Haute-Saône, Haute-Marne, Haute-Corse, etc...) even if some are totaly flat departments, but I understand that it could be funny seen in that way!

The name itself (Hauts-de-France) has been very criticized when it was choosed last year and I personaly find it very weird at first.... but finaly it replaced easily in my mind. Even on internet, when we make jokes about frenchs from the north, the old "Nord-Pas de Calais" has been (for most of it) replaced by "Hauts-de-France") even if now the people from Picardy are being also mocked in those jokes without reason...
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Old March 1st, 2017, 09:46 PM   #35799
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we have huge differences in dialects. extremes would be if 2 people, one from Krapina, another one from some Dalmatian island (or even Split) would talk in dialects, they woudn't understand each other at all. dunno, some Hungarian guy could join them so there would be 3 people not understanding each other at all.
People even from very diferent cultures are still humans, they find a way to understand summarily each other...

One of the best example I know is a french TV show we have in France "J'irai dormir chez vous" (="I will sleep at you house") where the guy go in foreign countries and visit peoples and tries to eat with them or to sleep in their houses, he meets awesome people and sometimes they are not even understanding a single word from each other...

In Romania for example he made some nice meets even if they don't understand much each other, this shot in Romania was funny (and weird at the end where he tought he was invited to eat with them but ended eating alone... ) : https://youtu.be/9QqPRfy3oXc?t=444

(Also for example, Cambodge : https://youtu.be/rDg1fhXD8F8?t=2346 )
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 12:07 AM   #35800
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By the way, changing the topic.

(it's good if you understand some German)

It's how Germans see the Polish construction workers working in Germany, as compared with German workers:



But... The Polish construction workers in Poland are exactly like the German worker described there Assuming that they exist - with which there are problems because they all have emigrated to the UK, Germany, Netherlands or to Scandinavia years ago.

How is it in other countries?
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