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Old March 13th, 2017, 11:51 PM   #35901
italystf
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Maybe is mostly an Italian thing, but here thypical foods, wines, and beverages, are perceived as a cultural heritage to defend, so their historical name are considered sensitive.
Of course, I would be more concerned by a wine that is unsafe to drink, rather by a name changed forcefully.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 12:00 AM   #35902
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Certain foods might be traditional, but are inherently unsafe, and used to cause several cases of hospitalization or worse. It is good to have a supranational body trampling some weird tradition in the name of objective safety standards in a few cases.
IMHO, it would be enough to make the producers place warning on the food or in the places of sale that it wasn't prepared in conditions considered nowadays hygienic because it's what the traditional methods of preparing it demand.

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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The one-size-fits-all approach is not valid for traffic rules either. For instance, the Nordics apply a few rules valid in areas where the roads are covered by ice and snow for six months a year. Such rules would be just unnecessary in the Mediterranean area.
There are anyway differences in the rules, like the allowed speeds, the obligatory equipment in the car (like fire extinguisher or first aid kit) or obligatory use of headlights also during the day. Different rules of placing the road signs. In some countries an intersection cancels the speed limit, in others it doesn't. The rules of right turn on red also vary between the countries. And the classification of roads as motorways, expressways and other roads is also not unified.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 12:11 AM   #35903
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Methanol is like mercury, no really safe levels for human consumption, isn't it?

I don't care if a dish is traditional, certain practices are unsanitary and should end. Heating houses with charcoal was common, it made air miserable and killed millions with respiratory diseases. Leaded gasoline burned better but produced horrible effects. Lead paint last longer than current varieties.

Technology and science evolve, so should a few odd and outdated food production methods. It is not like the EU is banning dry cheese or pesto.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 12:29 AM   #35904
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Methanol is like mercury, no really safe levels for human consumption, isn't it?
Are all wines with possible trace amounts of methanol banned? Because an Austrian wine that is made with the same grape of the Italian one, banned for methanol risk, is freely sold. So they are either selling a potentially-harmful wine legally, or banning a wine for commercial reason citing a non-existent methanol risk.

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Heating houses with charcoal was common, it made air miserable and killed millions with respiratory diseases. Leaded gasoline burned better but produced horrible effects. Lead paint last longer than current varieties.

Technology and science evolve, so should a few odd and outdated food production methods.
This I agree, EU pushed many countries to enhance environmental standards. Now we're the most environmentally-aware part of the world, much better than the United States, not to mention China, India, and Russia.
Sadly, we're still paying the consequences of the careless pre-1980s industrialization.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 01:10 AM   #35905
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Heating houses with charcoal was common, it made air miserable and killed millions with respiratory diseases.
Well, it's still really common (maybe not charcoal, but just coal, the one which comes from the mines) in some parts in the EU, where it still makes air miserable and still kills millions.

But... should we then ban having fireplaces in houses? I wouldn't say so. Because it's, let's call it so, a kind of tradition and it isn't used primarily for heating, but rather to create a nice atmosphere in the living room. It's not used by so many and not so frequently that it would create a really severe environmental threat. Maybe we should go further and ban barbecuing and roasting sausages over bonfires?

On the other side, we have the central heating boilers. In case of which banning those using coal or wood as the fuel makes some sense, since they are now present in more than 50% of houses in many areas here. But still, it has to be done carefully, more by means of encouraging people to convert to other fuels (and to improve the thermal insulation of their houses, so that the costs of other fuels won't kill them) and doing it slowly rather than by suddenly introducing a ban and taking the coal boilers out of the market,. Otherwise it would end up with appearing of a black market, which would be impossible to be controlled at all.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:13 AM   #35906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
There are anyway differences in the rules, like the allowed speeds, the obligatory equipment in the car (like fire extinguisher or first aid kit) or obligatory use of headlights also during the day. Different rules of placing the road signs. In some countries an intersection cancels the speed limit, in others it doesn't. The rules of right turn on red also vary between the countries. And the classification of roads as motorways, expressways and other roads is also not unified.
The differences in allowed speeds is insignificant to the road users, because the traffic signs display the limit. The same applies to the placement rules, and the policies to classify roads. The remaining number of variations is quite small.

Canceling the speed limit at an intersection without a traffic sign does not comply with the Vienna Convention text.

The text of the Vienna convention is partly quite imprecise, thus leaving space for interpretations. Still, the small variations in rules cause minor issues only.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #35907
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Okay, I couldn't imagine this being such a huge deal
Again, this proves why foreigners should not decide about our food. It IS a huge deal.
You simply don't have the sensibility to recognize it.

Last edited by g.spinoza; March 14th, 2017 at 10:04 AM.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 10:04 AM   #35908
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Maybe is mostly an Italian thing, but here thypical foods, wines, and beverages, are perceived as a cultural heritage to defend, so their historical name are considered sensitive.
Of course, I would be more concerned by a wine that is unsafe to drink, rather by a name changed forcefully.
That's right, but what if a well recognizable brand like Chianti or Barolo was forcefully changed for stupid reasons into something else? Who would buy it? They lost a lot of market, and that's just plain wrong.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #35909
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Canceling the speed limit at an intersection without a traffic sign does not comply with the Vienna Convention text.
Well, but it's quite logical, otherwise the drivers entering the road at the intersection wouldn't know about the speed limit present there.

But there are countries where there is no such rule... What happens there, when the speed limit is not cancelled before the intersection?
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Old March 14th, 2017, 04:17 PM   #35910
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Okay, I couldn't imagine this being such a huge deal
It is. I see, from the other side, how important it was for Hungary to forbid Italians and French using the name Tocai/Tocay. Had it happened the other way around and the name Tokaji had been forbidden it Hungary, believe me, the nation would have already left the EU.

Last edited by Attus; March 14th, 2017 at 05:47 PM.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #35911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Well, it's still really common (maybe not charcoal, but just coal, the one which comes from the mines) in some parts in the EU, where it still makes air miserable and still kills millions.

But... should we then ban having fireplaces in houses? I wouldn't say so. Because it's, let's call it so, a kind of tradition and it isn't used primarily for heating, but rather to create a nice atmosphere in the living room. It's not used by so many and not so frequently that it would create a really severe environmental threat. Maybe we should go further and ban barbecuing and roasting sausages over bonfires?

On the other side, we have the central heating boilers. In case of which banning those using coal or wood as the fuel makes some sense, since they are now present in more than 50% of houses in many areas here. But still, it has to be done carefully, more by means of encouraging people to convert to other fuels (and to improve the thermal insulation of their houses, so that the costs of other fuels won't kill them) and doing it slowly rather than by suddenly introducing a ban and taking the coal boilers out of the market,. Otherwise it would end up with appearing of a black market, which would be impossible to be controlled at all.
Interesting issue it is. I wasn't really even aware about how many people still use coal east of the former iron curtain. But mostly China (e.g. the legendary Beijing smog) has a lot to do to improve air quality. Once that is reached the biggest problem will likely be the energy form from power plants (which is still coal in China mostly). And after that: non-electric transportation.
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Prohibit the construction of new single-family dwellings without stacking apartments in Amsterdam (A10), Rotterdam (motorway ring), The Hague, Utrecht (outer ring), Eindhoven (ring), Tilburg (ringbanen) and Groningen (provincial ring)!

And prohibit the use of agricultural land for new dwellings!
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Old March 14th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #35912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
But... should we then ban having fireplaces in houses? I wouldn't say so. Because it's, let's call it so, a kind of tradition and it isn't used primarily for heating, but rather to create a nice atmosphere in the living room. It's not used by so many and not so frequently that it would create a really severe environmental threat. Maybe we should go further and ban barbecuing and roasting sausages over bonfires?
Fireplaces are already forbidden in many towns of the Po Plain, but in this case I don't think EU is responsible.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 07:09 PM   #35913
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Without EU, many countries would have similarly large regulations on apparently minute stuff. These obscenely detailed food naming conventions were not an invention of Brussells but mainly of France and Italy that were alarmed at the prospect of cheap food imports from US and Canada and South America in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #35914
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Quote:
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Without EU, many countries would have similarly large regulations on apparently minute stuff. These obscenely detailed food naming conventions were not an invention of Brussells but mainly of France and Italy that were alarmed at the prospect of cheap food imports from US and Canada and South America in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
As I already explained, there is quite a big difference between preventing a centuries-old traditional preparation being copied and sold elsewhere, and two equally traditional specialties having by chance a similar name.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:23 PM   #35915
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Once that is reached the biggest problem will likely be the energy form from power plants (which is still coal in China mostly).
The fumes from the coal power plants are filtered so well that almost nothing at all but water (in form of steam) and carbon dioxide is let out to the atmosphere. So it's really not an issue, except for the carbon dioxide, which is a greenhouse gas (in case of which it's a controversial issue whether the industrial emissions have a visible effect on the climate change or it's a mostly natural process and the contribution of industry is negligible).

The next reason of smog and air pollution after the coal-based heating systems is the transportation. And lack of control whether the exhaust fumes of the car satisfy the norms which they should satisfy at least for the specific car model.

It's already years since the car manufacturers are obliged to install catalysts in the exhaust systems of the produced cars, or DPF filters in the diesel cars, but it doesn't help much when the car owners remove them from their cars.

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Fireplaces are already forbidden in many towns of the Po Plain, but in this case I don't think EU is responsible.
My region recently banned barbecuing on balconies... in the middle of winter, as a method of fighting with the smog.

It's definitely not the right way. Have you ever heard about someone barbecuing on balcony in winter, in a country where typical temperatures in winter are below 0 centigrades?
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:24 PM   #35916
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What do you think of this?

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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #35917
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It is. I see, from the other side, how important it was for Hungary to forbid Italians and French using the name Tocai/Tocay. Had it happened the other way around and the name Tokaji had been forbidden it Hungary, believe me, the nation would have already left the EU.
It's funny that I've never heard of any of those

Although, I agree that some EU regulations are too much. I feel that each country can make it's own decisions on what's safe to sell and what isn't. If Italy wants to serve that rotten cheese which I find absolutely revolting, we'll they should do that. But if another country bans it on it's territory, then that's okay. It really shouldn't be an EU matter at all.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:32 PM   #35918
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We have recently had in Poland a discussion about an idea to ban the lorries to overpass.

The phenomenon shown in the video is really annoying, I fully agree with that, but a total ban on overpassing is not a good idea. Maybe a rule that when a lorry is being overpassed by another lorry, it has to slow down, so that the overpassing will last maximally X seconds?
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #35919
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What do you think of this?

There is a gas pedal by purpose in most cars. Such overtaking actions are just idiotic. If the truck drives 53 mph, there is no reason to overtake at 54 mph and block the entire road.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:46 PM   #35920
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The problem is that the professional drivers have those obligatory pauses. They have to wait a specified time at a parking lot after a specified time of driving. And, then, even driving 5 km/h more, let's say, 80 km/h instead of 75 km/h, means that doing 200 km will take 2 hours 30 minutes instead of 2 hours 45 minutes. 15 minutes less, those 15 minutes may decide about a necessity for an extra pause, and being at the delivery or just at home hours later.

It's the explanation of the drivers why they do it.
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