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Old April 28th, 2017, 08:11 AM   #36101
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
30 000 something Euro for car with an engine that is small for a motorcycle?! :o
My friend, if I were to buy what is considered a proper car in the new world, I would have to tear down the neighborhood to park it
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Old April 28th, 2017, 08:52 AM   #36102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What? That long? Did you order it at a regular seller? What are the specs (something unusually customized)?
Seven months is not an exceptional time to wait for a car.

I ordered my current sports car, the devil red Citroën Grand C4 Picasso, slightly customized. The delivery time was about five months. Usually, I start the selection project about eight months in advance, thus prepared for the lead time of six months. Most of the car dealers have an online access to car manufacturers' information systems to see the lead time estimate for a selected combination. The color may be one of the factors having an impact.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:11 AM   #36103
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The smaller turbocharged engines are more powerful these days. For example the 1.2 Puretech in the Peugeot has more horsepower than the 1.8L in the Chevrolet Malibu.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #36104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Seven months is not an exceptional time to wait for a car.

I ordered my current sports car, the devil red Citroën Grand C4 Picasso, slightly customized. The delivery time was about five months. Usually, I start the selection project about eight months in advance, thus prepared for the lead time of six months. Most of the car dealers have an online access to car manufacturers' information systems to see the lead time estimate for a selected combination. The color may be one of the factors having an impact.
I don't want to criticize, is really C4 a sports car?
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:40 AM   #36105
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
2.0 is not small by European standards, but this is seen different in North America...
It's rather big these days. I guess the downsizing went too far, but such capacity is not new even outside Europe. If only it was a lawnmover-wanna-be 1.0 TSI or 1.0 Eco Boost, then it might cause a laughter.

I would be interested in Peugeot/Citroen with 2.0 HDI if only there was some decent automatized gearbox. Unfortunately, at least in Poland, Golf Sportsvan is being offered with DSG only with 1.6 TDI 110 HP or 1.4 TSI 125 and 150 HP. 2.0 TDI 150 with DSG would be perfect
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #36106
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Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
It's rather big these days. I guess the downsizing went too far, but such capacity is not new even outside Europe. If only it was a lawnmover-wanna-be 1.0 TSI or 1.0 Eco Boost, then it might cause a laughter.
Part of the reason is due to politics and taxation. In Italy the annual tax is calculated on the sheer power of the engine, but it's not linear: for my 70 HP current car I pay 130 € per year, but with the new car, with double the power (150 HP) I will spend almost 3 times more.
And there is a further taxation for cars over 185 kW: for every kW more than the threshold, you have to pay 20 euro more.

Quote:
I would be interested in Peugeot/Citroen with 2.0 HDI if only there was some decent automatized gearbox. Unfortunately, at least in Poland, Golf Sportsvan is being offered with DSG only with 1.6 TDI 110 HP or 1.4 TSI 125 and 150 HP. 2.0 TDI 150 with DSG would be perfect
The market share of automatic gearboxes in Italy rose from 6.3% in 2004 to 14.89% in 2013, and it's projected to reach 25% in 2020.
I frankly don't feel comfortable with the automatic gearbox, as with all the gizmos that do (part of) the work for you.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:22 PM   #36107
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On a different subject, some days ago the famous cyclist Michele Scarponi, winner of the Giro d'Italia in 2011, was killed while training near his hometown of Filottrano (Central Italy). A van driver didn't yield at a crossing and smashed into his bike: he was dead on the spot.
Here's a computer reconstruction of the crash:

http://video.corriere.it/incidente-s...d-6ac3feee71e3

I was moved by this: I didn't know him personally, but was friend with one of his cousins.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #36108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Part of the reason is due to politics and taxation. In Italy the annual tax is calculated on the sheer power of the engine, but it's not linear: for my 70 HP current car I pay 130 € per year, but with the new car, with double the power (150 HP) I will spend almost 3 times more.
And there is a further taxation for cars over 185 kW: for every kW more than the threshold, you have to pay 20 euro more.
Luckily there is no road tax in Poland, excluding some part of the price of each litre of gasoline you fill up. But that what your written sounds like they consider each car bigger than ordinary Fiat Panda like supercar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The market share of automatic gearboxes in Italy rose from 6.3% in 2004 to 14.89% in 2013, and it's projected to reach 25% in 2020.
I frankly don't feel comfortable with the automatic gearbox, as with all the gizmos that do (part of) the work for you.
There is no another option in our case, because my parents became very used to automatized gearboxes (I write that way because Volkswagen's DSG is not an automatic gearbox at all) and choosing a new car last year, my dad resigned from e.g. glass roof only to have a DSG (he was choosing from some sort of ready-to-purchase VW CCs being offered by various dealers in Upper Silesia). The current VW New Beetle, brought from USA in 2008, has one of very first types of DSG gearbox ever being manufactured by VW. And diesel engine, which seems to be very weird to each single one having any contact with that car.

My question was more like if there's something interesting in that case in PSA (e.g. their engines seem to be more decent than Volkswagen ones).
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:36 PM   #36109
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The automatic gearbox for the Peugeot 3008 is called EAT6. I hear it's quite good, but I wouldn't know it...
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Old April 28th, 2017, 06:09 PM   #36110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't want to criticize, is really C4 a sports car?
Of course, it is!
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Old April 28th, 2017, 06:10 PM   #36111
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Of course, it is!
Then I can't wait to lay hands on my new sports car, Peugeot 3008!
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Old April 28th, 2017, 06:17 PM   #36112
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Turbocharged engines really change the equation of the power of smaller engines. They can deliver more torque without increasing the size of engine which, in turn, avoids the extra weight added by a much larger engine (= higher fuel consumption).

Actually, 1.2-1.4 turbocharged engines have some of the best fuel efficiency out there. Better than small 0.9 - 1.0 engines, better than the big ones.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:34 PM   #36113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
2.0 is not small by European standards, but this is seen different in North America...
Given the reference to motorbikes, I assume he was talking about the 1.2 Puretech, not the 2.0HDI.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 09:37 PM   #36114
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Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
Luckily there is no road tax in Poland, excluding some part of the price of each litre of gasoline you fill up. But that what your written sounds like they consider each car bigger than ordinary Fiat Panda like supercar.
We don't have a road tax (paid explicitly), but the engine capacity influences highly the insurance price.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 10:20 PM   #36115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Part of the reason is due to politics and taxation. In Italy the annual tax is calculated on the sheer power of the engine, but it's not linear: for my 70 HP current car I pay 130 € per year, but with the new car, with double the power (150 HP) I will spend almost 3 times more.
And there is a further taxation for cars over 185 kW: for every kW more than the threshold, you have to pay 20 euro more.
In Romania the tax is based on the engine size. The power doesn't matter. Some examples:
- 1.0 liter has a tax of 11 Euro per year (almost free)
- 1.5 liter has a tax of 15 Euro per year
- 2.0 liter (2.000 cc) has a tax of 46 Euro per year
- above 2.000 it gets interesting: if the car has 2.001 cc, the tax is 184 Euro, after that it rises exponentially
- 3.0 liter has a tax of 552 Euro per year

The insurance prices are also directly linked to the engine size, but the prices are slightly more linear.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #36116
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The trend of engine downsizing must've hit the countries which tax according to engine size hard. 10 or 15 years ago a 1.8 - 2.5 L engine was common for family cars, nowadays you can find SUVs and MPVs with 1.2 L engines. For example the 7-seat Volkswagen Touran is available with a 1.2 TSI engine (108 horsepower).
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Old April 29th, 2017, 08:33 AM   #36117
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Then I can't wait to lay hands on my new sports car, Peugeot 3008!
Sure. I think the matching model to Grand C4 Picasso is Peugeot 5008. It is all about how you define a sports car. In my one, there is plenty of room inside for sports stuff like skis. For a 2-meter christmas tree, too, but to clarify, it is not a sports equipment.

Anyway, such a FMV (Family Moving Vehicle) can be quite rapid despite its van-like outlook. My car has quite a powerful engine THP165. Because the car is quite lightweight, and the automatic gearbox works quickly, the car responds to the gas pedal rapidly when needed.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 09:03 AM   #36118
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The definition of sports car is not "car you can transport sports equipment with". According to Wikipedia, "A sports car (or sportscar) is a small, usually two seater, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling."
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Old April 29th, 2017, 09:54 AM   #36119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The definition of sports car is not "car you can transport sports equipment with". According to Wikipedia, "A sports car (or sportscar) is a small, usually two seater, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling."
Really? Are you sure?
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Old April 29th, 2017, 10:16 AM   #36120
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Really? Are you sure?
Am I sure... I quoted it from wikipedia, you can check yourself
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