daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 30th, 2017, 11:51 PM   #36261
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

Water explosion in Kyiv:

__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Kpc21 liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 31st, 2017, 01:48 AM   #36262
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,390
Likes (Received): 6783

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Starting 1 June, I have a 10 GB/month package. I won't be using slow public wifi then... Though I noticed that 4G coverage in France, Spain, etc. is more spotty compared to the Netherlands where there is almost 100% 4G coverage. Last week I was in the Vosges and there were quite a number of areas with no 4G or even no signal at all.
Is there any other so densely populated country in Europe as the Netherlands? I don't think so. So it's not weird that it was affordable for your operators to provide whole-country 4G coverage.

Although from what I know, it's very good with LTE in Poland too. There is even quite many people, who resigned with low-quality ADSL connections for LTE. Even if someone is not in LTE-covered area, it often makes sense for home use just to install a roof antenna to pick up the signal from a distant base station.

I am staying with ADSL, even though its performance is quite low where I live (6 Mb/s is the maximum of what I can have), because, in my opinion, cable is cable and no wireless can replace it. Cable is stable and insusceptible to external interference. With cable, it will never be so, that one time suddenly many users connect to my base station and the quality of the connection jumps down very much. Or that I install the connection in the autumn or winter, and then in spring the trees start to grow leaves and interrupt my LTE signal.


About Kiev, how did it happen? I understand that the water in the water supply pipes is under pressure, but not under so high pressure that could make such an explosion... And probably, if the pressure gets higher, the taps in people's houses would start leaking or just getting open sooner than an underground pipe blows up...

By the way, talking about water supply systems... In some countries, like Hungary or Slovakia, you can see towers with water vessels on their tops in each neighborhood, which regulate the water pressure in the system. Especially in village area. But, for example, in Poland such towers are practically unmet. There are just pump stations which pump the water (usually pumped first from under the ground) directly to the system, without placing it first in a tower. What does it depend on?
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 10:09 AM   #36263
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

My home internet connection is 150 MB/s on cable. It's very stable, you're guaranteed to get that speed, as opposed to ADSL where the speed decreases further from the hub. My brother lives nearby and has ADSL with only 20-40 MB/s in practice.

Fiber-optic internet rollout has stalled significantly in the Netherlands. Cable is currently fast enough for almost any household (you can watch Netflix in HD on 4 accounts simultaneously), so there is not an incentive to build expensive fiber-optic internet cable to every house. It's not really future-proof (at some point they will run into the physical limitations of cable).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 12:40 PM   #36264
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

EU traffic commissioner Violeta Bulc unveiled a plan for abolishing vignettes until 2023 (it is still a proposal). Then kilometer based tolling will have to be used (such infrastructure is already available in most countries with vignettes for cars). No new vignette systems should be allowed after end of 2017. New tolling should be interoperable.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 01:05 PM   #36265
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2114

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
EU traffic commissioner Violeta Bulc unveiled a plan for abolishing vignettes until 2023 (it is still a proposal). Then kilometer based tolling will have to be used (such infrastructure is already available in most countries with vignettes for cars). No new vignette systems should be allowed after end of 2017. New tolling should be interoperable.
Really? But why?
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 01:34 PM   #36266
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

To tax the crap out of motorists and make long-distance travel prohibitively expensive.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

cinxxx, Kanadzie liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 01:48 PM   #36267
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

In some parts of Europe such travel already is expensive (France, Italy). Problem will be not long distance travel but commuting. Currently I drive between about 300-500 km per week on motorways (which is somehow average). At previous toll prices (in 2008) that would cost me between 20 and 30 € per week or 1000-1500 per year and now it costs me 110 € per year for a vignette.
For inter-EU travel this would be very useful as it is new mobile data regulative. I presume this is also a preparation for additional taxing of EV that don't pay fuel tax.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 02:13 PM   #36268
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,819
Likes (Received): 1821

I think countries will still be able to decide if and which roads to tax. At the moment there are several EU countries that have no road tax and no tolls either.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 02:54 PM   #36269
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

It is bad for the European unification they strife to seek. It's a barrier to international travel, what if you have to pay € 250 in tolls for a 1000 kilometer trip to Lake Garda and back?
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Surel liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 03:28 PM   #36270
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It is bad for the European unification they strife to seek. It's a barrier to international travel
The same could be said for ridiculous tolls on Alpine tunnels, Danish straits bridges, etc... or for vignettes that must be purchased at full prices even if you drive 10 km (Bregenz? Koper?).
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

g.spinoza liked this post
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 03:33 PM   #36271
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

What is outrageous is that, at least in Italy, tolls often increases really A LOT, in such amounts not justifiable with inflaction. Latisana-Trieste was 2.50€ in 2005 and now it's 4.50€. Living cost hasn't increased in that proportion in this 12-years period. This really harms commuters and encourages the usage of parallel roads, that's really bad for local communities.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 03:37 PM   #36272
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

That's exactly why I'm against a system like this, because it's way too easy to just double to price of it.
keokiracer está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 03:38 PM   #36273
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

I think countries should be let free to chose the way to charge tolls, or not charge tolls at all.
EU should just impose maximum prices to avoid ripping off travellers, thus limiting the freedom of movement always supported by EU. For example, 1 km of motorway mustn't cost more than X in a flat area or Y in a mountain area, a weekly vignette can't cost more than Z, a yearly one not more than W, and so on. Or they forbid to charge tolls within 20 km from international borders, to avoid harming local cross-border travellers.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 04:00 PM   #36274
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

I think that will happen later so to prevent operators to charge ridiculous prices for driving (like in Frejus or Mont Blanc tunnels)
However I like the idea of getting rid of various windscreen stickers, OBU units and toll stations.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 04:32 PM   #36275
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
However I like the idea of getting rid of various windscreen stickers, OBU units and toll stations.
Me too, but you don't need a EU-wide kilometer tax to raplace it. Digital vignettes and open road tolling are proven concepts that are in use worldwide for over 20 years now.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Surel liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 06:00 PM   #36276
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

This sounds like a nice idea, a hotel for the weekend stayover....



But where are these truckers going to park their truck near a hotel? The far majority of rest areas do not have a hotel and most hotels don't have truck parking.

Furthermore, how is this going to be enforced? Sorry, you can't drive because you're out of hours, so walk 20 kilometers to the nearest hotel?

Or: the driver is responsible for the load, but can't stay with it because he needs to be put in a hotel?

It seems like typical bureaucrat proposals without regard for the real world conditions.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Kunagi liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 06:15 PM   #36277
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,472
Likes (Received): 3445

i don't like it at all. the prices of road transport will go to the skies with that.
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...

scrooge. liked this post
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 08:00 PM   #36278
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

Sure we have open tolling and electronic vignettes but when you see an average long distance truck windshield, you always notice a bunch of incompatible​ OBU units. Also official proposal does not seem to insist to introduce toll in countries, that don't have tolls yet.
__________________

Rebasepoiss liked this post
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 08:47 PM   #36279
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,390
Likes (Received): 6783

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
My home internet connection is 150 MB/s on cable. It's very stable, you're guaranteed to get that speed, as opposed to ADSL where the speed decreases further from the hub. My brother lives nearby and has ADSL with only 20-40 MB/s in practice.
20-40 MB or Mb (megabytes or megabits)? Because it makes quite a difference. 20 MB/s equals 160 Mb/s. And internet connection speed is usually expressed in Mb/s, not MB/s (MB/GB/TB is most often used for drive capacity).

I live in a detached house and cable TV connection is usually available only in apartments, so I have no choice.

In Poland, much is invested in fiber optic connections now. Many local ISPs do it with EU funding. Big operators also do some investments in the FTTH (Fiber To The Home) technology - although from what I can see, there is very much advertisement but they do little.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 10:00 PM   #36280
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

Megabits, sorry for the confusion. 150 Mbit/s = 18.75 megabyte/s download. But with cable the upload speed is much slower (in my case 15 Mbit/s = 1.875 megabyte/s). On the other hand I frequently upload large files to Youtube and it doesn't take extremely long. A 1 GB video takes about 8-9 minutes to upload.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium