daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 20th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #37021
jdb.2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 422
Likes (Received): 263

In Spain: sunglasses
jdb.2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 20th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #37022
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6784

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Unlike the U.S., European police doesn't really pull people over on the highway unless there is some obvious and blatant violation like Moroccans having their roof overloaded with junk. The chances of getting a ticket for missing equipment is extremely low, unless you maybe cross an active border check.
Well, it happens quite frequent to Polish drivers driving southwards. If I remember well, e.g. in Czech Republic you need a reflective vest inside the passenger compartment, wheel chains in winter and some other widgets. Like spare light bulbs (even if exchanging them in your car demands a visit in the service). There are countries which demand some specific equipment in the first aid kit. In Poland you don't even have to have a first aid kit in your car (although people normally have it). Stopping drivers for random control is a normal thing, and it's performed not only by the police, but also by the border guard. One of the reasons of it is Schengen.

We were once stopped in southern Poland for a random control by the Polish border guard - even though our car had Polish license plates. It's common. Maybe not on motorways, but on normal roads - yes.

Although I was once taking a Germany-Poland bus and we were stopped by the German police. Also for a random control (they were checking the documents of all the passengers, but probably also the obligatory equipment).
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:10 PM   #37023
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2115

I thought that Vienna Convention on Road Traffic stated that only national requirements for car dotation are needed even when travelling in a foreign nation, but I couldn't find such an Article.

But on another note, while browsing the document I found this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Article 8
1. Every moving vehicle or combination of vehicles shall have a driver.
So much for autonomous driving!
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #37024
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
It's really unusual how these regulations are being applied particularly considering the existence of the EU and its willingness to "force" common treatment even going so far as to eliminate cellular phone roaming fees for example. In North America by example, the equipment of your car only needs to meet the requirements of the place where it is registered, someone with an Ontario or Texas (or German!)-registered car can drive in the winter on summer tyres in Quebec where a winter tyre law is in effect (or likewise, Quebecers can use their studded tyres in Ontario where they are banned), and certainly any "unweltplakette" style regulation would only apply to the particular residents... Like you say, it makes travel for business or pleasure in other jurisdictions unnecessarily hard and an opportunity for revenue generation.
In the U.S., the states have a constitutional obligation to recognize legal documents and decisions from other states (unless they blatantly violate the recognizing state's own "public policy" in some way...) and to make it as easy as possible for people from other states to settle in their own state (that's called the right to travel). Not sure how that applies in this context. But it would certainly make a driver's license or car registration from one state valid anywhere, at a minimum.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #37025
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
Where did you rent it from?
I always check the renting conditions before doing the reservation and there is always a list of allowed countries, list not allowed, if you have to tell the renter, etc.
On both occasions - summer 2015 and summer 2016 - I rented through a company called AutoEurope. They're based over here and specialize in handling European rentals for Americans, just like Trivago or Orbitz or whoever does with hotels and flights. You go on the site, tell them you want to pick up a car in Amsterdam on Saturday morning, July whatever, and return it in Paris the afternoon of the following Saturday, and they come up with a bunch of quotes, from different rental companies. You choose, say, Hertz because the pick-up point is convenient and the price is right or whatever, you pay AutoEurope using a card (in dollars), and they contact Hertz Nederland during European business hours while you're going about your life (or sleeping) and arrange the details. It was when I showed up AT Hertz in Amsterdam to pick up the car that I was asked where I'd be taking it.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Last edited by Penn's Woods; September 20th, 2017 at 05:40 PM.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:28 PM   #37026
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've driven probably 10,000+ kilometers in France in the last three years. I never bothered about the breathalyzer.

Unlike the U.S., European police doesn't really pull people over on the highway unless there is some obvious and blatant violation like Moroccans having their roof overloaded with junk. The chances of getting a ticket for missing equipment is extremely low, unless you maybe cross an active border check.

I doubt if they really crack down on the German environmental sticker if you're just passing through or park in an underground parking structure. It seems to me the biggest chance for getting a ticket for not having the 'Umweltplakette' is if you're parked on the street where it stands out you do not have a sticker.
Yeah, the breathalyzer was on my to-do list before I crossed the border; once I was in France without one I forgot about it.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #37027
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2115

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
In the U.S., the states have a constitutional obligation to recognize legal documents and decisions from other states (unless they blatantly violate the recognizing state's own "public policy" in some way...)
What does that mean? Can you give some example?
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #37028
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In Italy there is no obligation to have first-aid kit in your car, while in Austria there is... so I bought one - overpriced - on a rest station near the border.

I agree with Chris that very rarely people are pulled over just for checks, and it is unlikely to be fined for not having some equipment if you come from another country, but I like to be tidy and in order so I got one.
I must admit, though, that I totally forgot about the breathalyzer when I drove in France last time. I just checked on the internet and it seems that the law imposing the breathalyzer in your car was implemented in 2012 and lifted in 2013, so now there is no imposition any more.
That's the thing. I did at least know about the breathalyzer rule (I didn't know until I read your post that it had been repealed, and maybe that's why I couldn't find one), and didn't mind respecting the law of the country I'd be driving in. But the last gas station on the E17 didn't actually have them (or I couldn't find them there), so what are you supposed to do?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #37029
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
What does that mean? Can you give some example?
Of the public policy exception? I would imagine that back when some states prohibited interracial marriage () they didn't have to recognize such marriages performed elsewhere. That sort of thing. The "public policy" rule is in the Supreme Court jurisprudence surrounding the Constitutional requirement; the Constitution itself just says the states shall give "full faith and credit" to the judicial decisions of other states.

The right to travel (coupled with a post-Civil War amendment that says an American citizen is also a citizen of the state he or she lives in) means that, for example, when I moved to Pennsylvania a month before an election I was allowed to vote. There was a 30-day registration deadline (and if I'd moved here a week later, I would have missed it, but I would have just been able to vote absentee in New Jersey), but they can't say "no, you can't vote here until you've lived here for two years" or "you can't get the citizens' share of Alaska oil revenues until you've lived here five years." Those deadlines are far too long. They pretty much need to treat new residents (assuming they're U.S. citizens) as citizens as soon as they've established the intent to stay there.

EDIT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_F..._Credit_Clause

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedo...ted_States_law
Particularly:
Quote:
Implications

The Court's establishment of a strong constitutional right to freedom of movement has also had far-reaching and unintended effects. For example, the Supreme Court overturned state prohibitions on welfare payments to individuals who had not resided within the jurisdiction for at least one year as an impermissible burden on the right to travel (Shapiro v. Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969)). The Court has also struck down one-year residency requirements for voting in state elections (Dunn v. Blumstein, 405 U.S. 330 (1972)), one-year waiting periods before receiving state-provided medical care (Memorial Hospital v. Maricopa County, 415 U.S. 250 (1974)), civil service preferences for state veterans (Attorney Gen. of New York v. Soto-Lopez, 476 U.S. 898 (1986)), but upheld higher fishing and hunting license fees for out-of-state residents (Baldwin v. Fish and Game Commission of Montana, 436 U.S. 371 (1978)).[11][12][13]
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Last edited by Penn's Woods; September 20th, 2017 at 05:55 PM.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #37030
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Now, I wouldn't object to needing breathalyzers or Umweltplaketten or the like, as long as it's easy to find out about that sort of rule. (It would be nice, for example, if telling Hertz Germany you're going to France would prompt them to say, hey, you'll need to do such-and-such before you cross the border, just as a matter of good customer service.)
I would be pissed if I found out I couldn't drive my Dutch or German rental into Paris or Milan because it was too polluting or something. I know it would be a headache for rental companies to keep track of this sort of thing, but that's their job, so....
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #37031
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2115

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Of the public policy exception? [...]
Thanks for your answer.
I asked because the «unless they blatantly violate the recognizing state's own "public policy"» seems a bit vague. It seems like a state must recognize other states' laws unless it doesn't want to.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 06:34 PM   #37032
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Thanks for your answer.
I asked because the «unless they blatantly violate the recognizing state's own "public policy"» seems a bit vague. It seems like a state must recognize other states' laws unless it doesn't want to.
It is vague. The way it would have worked is: A and B (a same-sex couple) move to a state that doesn't recognize same-sex marriage*, file a state tax return as a married couple (because the rates would be better); state refuses to let them do that; A and B go to court and say, hey, we got married in the state we used to live in and you need to treat us as married here. Court decides the new state does not need to treat them as married, states "public policy" rule as rationale. Future cases refine this (because the courts can only deal with actual real-life situations before them) on a case-by-case basis....

*Which they all have to now; I just can't think of an example that works in 2017. Maybe gun laws, God help us. Maybe you have a permit to carry a gun in public from Texas and want to use it to carry a gun on the street in Manhattan. I could certainly see a court saying "New York's policy is not to permit open carry on city streets; Texas gun permit doesn't override that here." I could totally get behind the court in that instance.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 06:44 PM   #37033
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,507
Likes (Received): 2115

I see.
To me it's just weird that such important matters like marriages are managed by states and not by central government.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #37034
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

When the thirteen colonies declared independence, there really wasn't a new central government waiting in the wings (just the Continental Congress, which was created by the colonies specifically to coordinate the fight against Britain...at first to address grievances, then it evolved into a war effort), so the "sovereignty" - the right to legislate - passed from the British parliament to the state legislatures. (And Articles of Confederation created a confederation with limited powers...) A decade later, the states were feeling the need for a central government to address certain matters, so they called for a convention to revise the Articles of Confederation, which sort of went rogue and came up with a new constitution. But, the way the constitution was written, authority in specific areas was transferred to (or to be shared with) the new federal government; everything else remained with the states. For whatever reason, no one thought marriage, divorce, and so on couldn't continue to be handled at the state level. Maybe because people didn't move around that easily.

Never really thought about it; perhaps because we're used to it. I suppose you could say that the federal government of the 1780s (and even more so the government under the Articles of Confederation that preceded it) was in a role like that of the E.U. No one - correct me if I'm wrong - suggests that marriage law should be identical from one end of the E.U. to the other; if any member state is actively violating the rights of some people, the E.C.H.R. will step in....
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 07:25 PM   #37035
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
To me it's just weird that such important matters like marriages are managed by states and not by central government.
Yes, this is often misunderstood in Europe, the U.S. has a very decentralized government. The states have their own senate, house of representatives, supreme court, etc. The power of the states is much greater than national subdivisions in most of Europe. Maybe Germany has a model that comes closest to that of the U.S., with Spain also being very decentralized, but varies by region.

In most of the United States, counties are also more important in everyday governance than similar third-level divisions in most of Europe. They can levy taxes, have a courthouse, a sheriff, develop infrastructure, etc. The exact powers of a county vary by state.

Another interesting feature in the U.S. is that not all land is incorporated into a municipality, quite a bit of land - including dense urban areas - are not part of a municipality but are governed by a county, in some metropolitan areas this includes hundreds of thousands of people. I don't even think the concept of an 'unincorporated area' similar to the U.S. really exists in Europe (though maybe it does, I don't know the specifics of every single country).

For example it is projected that by 2020, more people in Harris County (4.6 million) will live in unincorporated areas than in the city of Houston (2.3 million).


Via: https://communityimpact.com/houston/...ty-jack-cagle/
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Penn's Woods liked this post

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; September 20th, 2017 at 07:36 PM.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 07:41 PM   #37036
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

All true, although the local-government structure is another thing that varies by state. There are states (most Northeastern and Midwestern ones) where every square inch of land does fall into some municipality.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 07:45 PM   #37037
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,186

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Another interesting feature in the U.S. is that not all land is incorporated into a municipality, quite a bit of land - including dense urban areas - are not part of a municipality but are governed by a county, in some metropolitan areas this includes hundreds of thousands of people. I don't even think the concept of an 'unincorporated area' similar to the U.S. really exists in Europe (though maybe it does, I don't know the specifics of every single country).

For example it is projected that by 2020, more people in Harris County (4.6 million) will live in unincorporated areas than in the city of Houston (2.3 million).
Speaking of that, I recommend you watching this video:



I thought that I have been in Las Vegas, but when I returned from there I watched this video and I discovered that I've never been into the city of Las Vegas. The good part is that I've been in Paradise
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #37038
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Speaking of that, I recommend you watching this video:



I thought that I have been in Las Vegas, but when I returned from there I watched this video and I discovered that I've never been into the city of Las Vegas. The good part is that I've been in Paradise
You've been to Paradise, but have you ever been to you?

(Sorry. Couldn't resist. https://youtu.be/SZgIk2b68gQ)

ANYhoo.
What photo-hosting service are we using these days?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2017, 01:14 AM   #37039
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,462
Likes (Received): 1937

So it appears that F*cking village isn't alone, there's also Oberf*cking and Unterf*cking. It seems that neither over-f*cking nor under-f*cking is good, and may result in the name being bchanged to Fugging.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2017, 01:46 AM   #37040
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,248
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
So it appears that F*cking village isn't alone, there's also Oberf*cking and Unterf*cking. It seems that neither over-f*cking nor under-f*cking is good, and may result in the name being bchanged to Fugging.
This is so much more elegant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercourse,_Pennsylvania
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium