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Old September 29th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #37081
g.spinoza
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Guys, what do you think about the recent ferocity against diesel cars? They are going to be banned in more and more cities and territories... I recently bought another diesel car, due to the fact that I drive almost 25000 km per year and it seemed cheaper, but I'm beginning to question my choice...
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Old September 29th, 2017, 12:20 PM   #37082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
When I rented a car in Denver last year I planned all my movements very carefully... I was aware of the toll on E-470 and explicitly excluded it in my satnav...
There was a tolled bridge on I-65 in Louisville, Kentucky (you certainly don't expect that when you start in California 3 weeks before) that we "forgot" to find - it is not even mentioned in Wikipedia when searching tolled roads in USA.
If we would know that before we would certainly choose some other bridge.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 12:33 PM   #37083
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In the Netherlands motorways are basically not tolled but there are some short tolled tunnels and bridges where you not always can pay the toll there in cash or by credit card but you must register yourself previuosly at I don't know which organization...
Which one? AFAIK that's not a necessity for any of the tolled roads in NL
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Old September 29th, 2017, 01:13 PM   #37084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Guys, what do you think about the recent ferocity against diesel cars? They are going to be banned in more and more cities and territories... I recently bought another diesel car, due to the fact that I drive almost 25000 km per year and it seemed cheaper, but I'm beginning to question my choice...
You are okay due to EURO levels I guess your car is not 20 years old.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 01:26 PM   #37085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Guys, what do you think about the recent ferocity against diesel cars? They are going to be banned in more and more cities and territories... I recently bought another diesel car, due to the fact that I drive almost 25000 km per year and it seemed cheaper, but I'm beginning to question my choice...
I believe the big car manufacturers are behind the campain, in order to promote (expensive) electric cars. The more they can hide themselves behind the environmental curtains and let other do the actual fighting, the better tehy feel.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #37086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
You are okay due to EURO levels I guess your car is not 20 years old.
I should get my new car in few weeks... the old one is from 2008. It is not so old, but I had problems last winter in Turin: for several days, that banned all non Euro-6 diesel cars in all the city, and my old car is Euro-4...
I am under the impression that these bans will be longer and more widespread in the future.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 02:10 PM   #37087
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A Porsche GT3RS registered in Florida (USA) has been caught on the A-40 near Ocaña (Spain) doing 242 km/h. That's more than twice the speed limit (120 km/h)

https://twitter.com/DGTes/status/913010652586872832



The punishment is a €600 fine, have your driver's licence revoked and between 3 and 6 months of prison. The driver was arrested but apparently he's now back in the USA.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #37088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Guys, what do you think about the recent ferocity against diesel cars? They are going to be banned in more and more cities and territories... I recently bought another diesel car, due to the fact that I drive almost 25000 km per year and it seemed cheaper, but I'm beginning to question my choice...
There is a bit of hysteria around diesel cars.

However the diesel emissions continue to go way down, even with the recent Dieselgate scandal of Volkswagen.

First, to get an idea about emission standards, here are the Euro emission standards for NOx and PM10:


The graph is outdated. Euro 6 has been introduced in 2014.

Euro 6 maximum emissions;
* NOx: 0.08 gram/km
* PM10: 0.005 gram/km

Often you'll read about how real-world emissions are x times higher than the limit. While this sounds serious, the limits are now extremely low compared to the first 3 euro emission standards.

Long story short: diesel car emissions are now much lower than they were in the 1990s. However, with air quality constantly in the news with ever more restrictions they make it seem that air quality is currently getting worse while it is in fact improving and has improved significantly over the last 20 years.

However there continue to be spells of poor air quality, this will only increase over the winter when cold air inversion becomes more common, trapping pollutants near the ground, thus resulting in a poor air quality. Usually their game is to ban cars or reduce speed limits as if traffic is the only reason why there are spells of poor air quality.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 04:10 PM   #37089
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Yet we all remember that just 20 years ago when there was a fog of cigarette smoke in almost every bar, everything was deemed "OK" and actually even nonsmokers didn't bother much about air quality in bars.
Now imagine bars or restaurants full of smoke nowadays. You can try that in many bars in Croatia.
Standards improve over the years and that is usually good thing. Probably we don't want to see the days where almost all buildings in cities burned coal for heating, combined with heavy fog.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #37090
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Well, on the one hand, some real-world tests (e.g. this year from ADAC) showed some manufacturer (I think Renault, Ford, Fiat were among the worst) to be at Euro 3 level or worse when it comes to NOx.. So, not "extremely low" compared to Euro3...

Further, particulates are not really a solved issue, and Diesel cars are one of the main producers of them.

So I wouldn't call the situation all rosy... And especially debatable is IMHO that in some countries, Diesel is still taxed less than other forms of fuel...
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Old September 29th, 2017, 04:49 PM   #37091
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There are many sources for particulate matter (PM), traffic is a relatively small share. Wood stove burning is a main source of urban PM emissions, in particular during the winter.

NOx emissions / NO2 concentrations are for a significant portion attributed to diesel engines. Thus reducing diesel dependence has a larger impact on NO2 than PM.

Another fraud recently surfaced is AdBlue manipulation, chiefly by Eastern European trucking companies. They have a device in the truck that manipulates the engine management into thinking the AdBlue system works as it should while in reality there is no AdBlue consumption at all. AdBlue (or DEF for our North American friends) is by far the most efficient way to reduce diesel engine emissions, in particular for larger vehicles.

Diesel trucks are always tested under full load and have AdBlue / Diesel Exhaust Fluid, so that's a reason why diesel trucks don't fail emission tests like diesel cars do.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 07:02 PM   #37092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Guys, what do you think about the recent ferocity against diesel cars? They are going to be banned in more and more cities and territories... I recently bought another diesel car, due to the fact that I drive almost 25000 km per year and it seemed cheaper, but I'm beginning to question my choice...
Some of the commenters to the article I posted were pointing out that a decade ago their politicians were encouraging diesel. If that's true (I don't know because I'm not there...), I can see how it would be annoying to have bought a diesel then and now be treated as if you did something wrong.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 07:22 PM   #37093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
There was a tolled bridge on I-65 in Louisville, Kentucky (you certainly don't expect that when you start in California 3 weeks before) that we "forgot" to find - it is not even mentioned in Wikipedia when searching tolled roads in USA.
If we would know that before we would certainly choose some other bridge.

There must be some signage on the road telling you there’s a toll coming, and if you’re not totally reliant on satnav, you can avoid it, can’t you? Is there a toll on the US 31 crossing just downstream, or on I-64? (That said, I don’t approve, just on principle, of tolls that are off-limits to certain people because they don’t have the right pass or whatever.)
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Old September 29th, 2017, 07:25 PM   #37094
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World’s 15 Biggest Ships Create More Pollution Than All The Cars In The World
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old September 29th, 2017, 07:36 PM   #37095
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I've read something about cruise ships in Norway. One or two large cruise ships emit more CO2 than is saved by all electric cars in the country (which has cost the government billions in lost tax revenue).
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Old September 29th, 2017, 07:37 PM   #37096
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So I did a bit of reading. Those Louisville tolls have apparently been in place for less than a year. And it’s basically E-ZPass, with no option to pay cash or using a card....

Actually, I think the only place I’ve used a card to pay tolls was France.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 09:08 PM   #37097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've read something about cruise ships in Norway. One or two large cruise ships emit more CO2 than is saved by all electric cars in the country (which has cost the government billions in lost tax revenue).
Another aspect in that area is sulfur. The MARPOL Annex VI updates to set the upper limit of sulpur in the marine fuels to 1000 ppm (0.1%) in the Baltic Sea and certain other European seas caused a lot of noise at least in Finland. Even that is 100 times more than it is allowed in car fuels (10 ppm). Globally the limit is 35000 ppm, but it is planned to be lowered to 5000 ppm in the near future, in spe.

At the global level, it is estimated that the CO2 emissions of the marine traffic is 3% of all CO2 emissions. Still, it is good to understand that the marine cargo is about 90% of all cargo (by weight).
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Old September 29th, 2017, 09:19 PM   #37098
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The figure of 760 million cars in the world is grossly underestimated. In 2014 (one year after that article) there were 1.2 billion cars estimated in the world.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 09:25 PM   #37099
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So I did a bit of reading. Those Louisville tolls have apparently been in place for less than a year. And it’s basically E-ZPass, with no option to pay cash or using a card....

Actually, I think the only place I’ve used a card to pay tolls was France.

I actually know some people that were involved in building the tolling system for that bridge. It is part of a greater scheme, where they doubled the bridge close to the city (on i65), and built a new bridge on i265.

Generally I also dislike tolls that can only be paid with these transponders, that makes it unnecessarily hard for the occasional user. And online payment when putting in the license plate works in some places, is relatively easy, so there is no reason to not offer that solution...
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Old September 29th, 2017, 09:35 PM   #37100
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I have a different, positive for me, experience with road tolls with rented cars.

When I rented a car in USA, I drove on the famous San Francisco Bay Bridge, which is tolled. I paid it online, based on car registration, and it was ok.

I also drove in Miami area on some tolled highways, and the only reasonable option was to let it go through the car rental company. One year later, they still haven't asked for any money for that.

In Portugal I got a transponder in the car, from the car rental company. While passing at each toll point, my co-pilot (wife) noted down the amount that was written, as we wanted to see how much will it add up. There were about 60 or 70 Euros as we traveled from the south coast up to Porto, with some detours. Surprisingly, the car rental company only invoiced us for about 60% the total amount we though we will have to pay. I have no idea why, but I haven't complained

I'll have to test it again on a new continent in about a month...
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