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Old September 30th, 2017, 01:36 PM   #37121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
It's weird to have the same value of money existing simultaneously in both a note and a coin.






Same goes for 20, but I would say that rate is 80%-20% in favour of banknotes. National bank claims that it's cheaper to print banknotes, even the face value is pretty low (0.08 EUR and 0.17 EUR).
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Old September 30th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #37122
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I have been reading your posts in this forum for more than seven years. And it's the very first case when I absolutely disagree.
I try to explain why.
Emssions in street traffic are higher than in the test. It is well known and it's OK, the whole system was designed so. Test enviroments are near to perfect - street traffic enviroments are not. No surprise.
However, it is a real surprise that the real, street traffic NOx emission of Euro 5 diesels are usually significantly higher than the street traffic emission of Euro 4 diesels. NOx limit for Euro4 was 250 mg/km, for Euro5 180mg/km. But real world emission was not decreased but, on the contrary, increased.
Simply because car manufacturers started to cheat with AdBlue. They made an illegal agreement about having no more than 8l tanks of AdBlue (16l in he US) and in order not to force motorists to reload it more often than once a year, cheated by adding AdBlue (it has some other name in North America, but the same substance). They built in some sensors and added the expected amount of AdBlue only in the test, but not on the street.
Even some Euro6 diesel cars have NOx emissions above 500 mg/km which is more than the limit for a bus, and a lot of Euro5 have emissions above 900 mg/km which is about two times higher than the Euro VI limit for a bus and much higher than the Euro3 limit for a car.

(I could explain it even more detailed, but I think no one is interested :-))
I don't understand. If the AdBlue tank of my car is depleted, the car won't start. What difference does the size of AdBlue tank make?
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Old September 30th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #37123
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True. But modern Diesel engines are quite clean...
only if they work correctly - I'm experiencing daily almost new diesel cars (mostly German of all types few years old) that smoke considerably like some 1980's diesel van. I don't see that with gasoline cars.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #37124
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Is the U.S. an exception with a bill for money with a low value like $ 1? The lowest Euro bill is € 5. The downside of bills for low denominations is that they wear out very fast and have to be replaced all the time. Coins last almost forever, but are indeed bulky.
No. Romania has even lower bills - 1 RON which is more or less 4 times less than 1 EUR.

Poland has 10 PLN, which is something like 2-3 EUR.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 03:34 PM   #37125
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I don't understand. If the AdBlue tank of my car is depleted, the car won't start. What difference does the size of AdBlue tank make?
A typical, average 2.0 Diesel car needs approx. 4-7l of AdBlue pro 1,000 km to fulfill Euro 6 standards for NOx. Having a tank of 8l, you should refill it at least once in 2,000 km, i.e. for you 12-14 times a year. Even a larger, 20l tank shoud be refilled at least 5 times a year.
The idea was to create a system where motorists need not refill it at all, but it can be refilled once a year in a garage, when oil is changed, etc., i.e. the usual yearly inspection. To achieve that goal you shall either have a 100l tank for AdBlue or the car must use significantly less AdBlue - and let NOx uncleaned in the air.
Several car manufacturers choose the second way.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #37126
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Is the U.S. an exception with a bill for money with a low value like $ 1? The lowest Euro bill is € 5. The downside of bills for low denominations is that they wear out very fast and have to be replaced all the time. Coins last almost forever, but are indeed bulky.

I almost never carry cash with me. I have a phone case with my debit card + driver's license + vehicle registration, so I don't usually have an actual wallet on me anymore, except on international trips where I need to have my credit card and some cash.
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Here in Norway you don't need cash, every minor street food stand has a portable chip card sales terminal (connected through their smartphones via bank apps). I have never had any use for cash kroner here so far.
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I remember when I was in Stockholm that I paid for a hot-dog with my credit card. I have no idea how Swedish money look like as I didn't have to use cash at all while I was there.
Canada replaced its dollar bill by a dollar coin around 1990; the 2-dollar bill by a 2-dollar coin a few years later. (Our 2-dollar bill is so rarely used, for some reason, that for years I could say the last one I'd had in my hands was one I'd gotten at Gatwick in 1986, changing money to come home.)

Re doing everything by card, I'm obsessive-compulsive, or cautious (depending on your point of view), enough that I'd feel the need to keep a receipt for every transaction and compare them to my online bank statement and make sure they all went through. If you don't do that, how do you know the account balance they give you is accurate? So it's much less trouble to withdraw cash and spend it - only one transaction to record.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #37127
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As for the same denomination in both coin and note, before euro we had both 1000 lire note and 1000 lire coin.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 06:54 PM   #37128
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I drove an automatic for the first time for a couple of hours last night. I have read online that automatic gearboxes work well for powerful cars but less well for less powerful ones. I reckon that is probably true, I drove a pretty new Renault Clio and the gearbox was ok in town and on the motorway but a bit infuriating on country roads, especially when accelerating after bends, it would take a good few seconds to change down.

Other than that it was pretty nice, amazing to see how much better it was technologically than my 2003 Clio that I scrapped just before moving to Switzerland. That said, given the choice between the two to drive on country lanes or over mountain passes I'd still choose the 2003 manual any day.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #37129
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At Germany before the Euro, we had 5DM coins and bills. Most of the people used the 5DM coins. 5DM bills were less to find.
But I would it found better, if we would have 1€ and 2€-notes.
I pay nearly everything in cash, also fuel.
The last thing what I paid with credit card were the tools at Italy, but at Trieste (I) the tool booth after much trys didn't want to read my card. So I paid with cash at the end.
God thanks that we have the Euro. In the last years I drove in one week trough much countries, when I would think about it that I need to carry much currencies with me.
I live near the Czech border, but all in all it is rare that I need Czech money. At the gas stations and Duty Free Shops the are much German costumers.
At Switzerland at a gas station near the Italian border, I paid with cash in Euro and I had a very good exchange rate, I was better than paying with credit card (in foreign currencies I must pay a 1,5% fee from the price to the bank).
At my bank I could get foreign currenies too, US-Dollar, British Pounds and Swiss Franc. Other currenices they must order and for Eastern Europeans and much other currencies the exchange rate is too low. So it is better to change it in the country.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #37130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post

Re doing everything by card, I'm obsessive-compulsive, or cautious (depending on your point of view), enough that I'd feel the need to keep a receipt for every transaction and compare them to my online bank statement and make sure they all went through. If you don't do that, how do you know the account balance they give you is accurate? So it's much less trouble to withdraw cash and spend it - only one transaction to record.
In my case, I set up a (free) alert system. My credit card app makes a chime whenever a transaction is registered and puts a notification alert. It takes just a few seconds so I got used to hear the chime after using my card (same goes for debit card, different chime though). So if I ever get an alert and a screen notification when I am not using the card, I know there will be problems. But, then, I never had any credit card problem related to fraud, just some issues concerning overcharging (by a hotel once, by an exam board another time).
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Old September 30th, 2017, 08:50 PM   #37131
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I pay nearly everything in cash, also fuel.
For us in the Netherlands it's strange to observe how Germany is clinging to cash so much. But not only the Netherlands, debit / credit card usage is widespread in many European countries, also for smaller amounts of money. I've seen many people in France using their card for payments under € 10 in the supermarket.

In the Netherlands many company cafeterias, vending machines and parking meters do not accept cash anymore.

Contactless payment in particular is helpful, it greatly reduces the amount of waiting time, but I've noticed that the transaction requires more time in some other countries. I used contactless payment on the Sanifair system on a German rest area and it took about 7-8 seconds to process the payment. In the Netherlands, contactless payment is instantly.

Contactless payment is also safer, nobody can peek at your PIN and you don't need to touch any unsanitary typepads that everyone uses.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 09:02 PM   #37132
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Rarely do I have cash in my wallet. I have already paid chewing gums adding up to 0,70 € with with my card.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 09:11 PM   #37133
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
[url]http://www.banknotenews.com/files/page0_blog_entry231_1.jpg[/IMG]

https://i.ucoin.net/coin/0/310/31026...inara-2006.jpg



Same goes for 20, but I would say that rate is 80%-20% in favour of banknotes. National bank claims that it's cheaper to print banknotes, even the face value is pretty low (0.08 EUR and 0.17 EUR).



although this paper one became very obsolete. I am not sure if it is valid anymore, I haven't seen it for years.


btw, we had interesting situation with 10 kn bill - it changed the colour. originally it was pink, but they said that it was too similar to 10 DEM, so they have changed it into brown after few years.



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Old September 30th, 2017, 09:42 PM   #37134
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Old September 30th, 2017, 10:12 PM   #37135
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
For us in the Netherlands it's strange to observe how Germany is clinging to cash so much. But not only the Netherlands, debit / credit card usage is widespread in many European countries, also for smaller amounts of money. I've seen many people in France using their card for payments under € 10 in the supermarket.

In the Netherlands many company cafeterias, vending machines and parking meters do not accept cash anymore.

Contactless payment in particular is helpful, it greatly reduces the amount of waiting time, but I've noticed that the transaction requires more time in some other countries. I used contactless payment on the Sanifair system on a German rest area and it took about 7-8 seconds to process the payment. In the Netherlands, contactless payment is instantly.
.
Sanifair contactless terminals on Dutch railway stations also take longer than at supermarkets or food stores. These terminals also accept credit cards.

The Netherlands had a historical quirk that put it at the cutting edge of contactless payment systems. For many years, there was an offline system for micro-payments stored on chip cards, called Chipknip. These were cards (could even be your own bank card) with a chip that stored up to € 250. It had to be loaded a terminals. It worked just by pressing a button after insertion (no password). It was very convenient for vending machines, parking meters etc. I think other countries had similar plans for such systems but they got bogged down and few national-wide schemes were implemented.

Because chipknip was widely used, there was a delay in introducing contactless solutions and cheaper terminals for smaller transactions (think below € 10). When they got rid of chipknip, they could upgrade their system to the latest specifications.

There are some differences between countries, the payment system that process debit cards in the Netherlands is separated from the one that process credit card transactions. The latter is much cheaper for merchants, which helps explain why supermarkets, public transportation agencies, fast food stores are still reluctant to take credit cards.

Here in Norway they use a singular system, domestic debit cards are actually credit cards with instant withdrawing from account and no credit limit, from a technical transaction-management standpoint.

I am not sure how these things work in Germany, I know I am midly annoyed for having to withdraw Euro to use there (during my last 3 years living in Tilburg, I used less than € 100 in cash altogether within Netherlands).
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Old September 30th, 2017, 11:20 PM   #37136
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Guys have you ever seen a 200€ banknote? Except a picture of it. I always get 100 or 500 € dispersed from atm.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #37137
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I was working in a supermarket in the early 2000s while on high school. Banknotes over € 50 were very uncommon to get, € 200 and 500 was not accepted and almost nobody paid with € 100.

Personally I almost never draw money from an ATM. Only when I go on a long international trip I will get around € 70 in cash just to be safe. I usually spend some of that money at restaurants or bars. I try to pay as much as possible by card, so I can avoid having a stockpile of coins, including 1 cent and 2 cent coins which are not used in the Netherlands (though they are legal tender).
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Old October 1st, 2017, 12:11 AM   #37138
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I always donate all 1 and 2 cent coins, as I don't think they have any value anymore. My charity of choice has already received over a full euro that way.
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Guys have you ever seen a 200€ banknote? Except a picture of it. I always get 100 or 500 € dispersed from atm.
I've seen some 200€ notes. They do exist.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 12:24 AM   #37139
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The Netherlands had a historical quirk that put it at the cutting edge of contactless payment systems. For many years, there was an offline system for micro-payments stored on chip cards, called Chipknip. These were cards (could even be your own bank card) with a chip that stored up to € 250. It had to be loaded a terminals. It worked just by pressing a button after insertion (no password). It was very convenient for vending machines, parking meters etc. I think other countries had similar plans for such systems but they got bogged down and few national-wide schemes were implemented.
Germany had GeldKarte.

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There are some differences between countries, the payment system that process debit cards in the Netherlands is separated from the one that process credit card transactions. The latter is much cheaper for merchants, which helps explain why supermarkets, public transportation agencies, fast food stores are still reluctant to take credit cards.
In Germany, the transactions with their debit cards (EC-Karten) in many points are conducted not as card transactions, but as so called direct debit (Lastschrift). While normal card transactions in Europe are normally authorized with a PIN number, I have never met a situation when a signature was used for that, although I often read about card transactions authorized by a signature in the USA. And in Germany the card transactions - with either their EC cards, or with any other cards - are almost always authorized by PIN number, but if it's a Lastschrift, then you must sign on a print-out from the terminal that you agree that they charge your account with the specified amount of money.

Because direct debit is, generally, allowing someone taking specific amount (or amounts - on regular basis) of money from your account. In Germany it's also popular for paying different kinds of bills, especially if the amount to pay changes every month (otherwise you could use a standing order - Dauerauftrag - which is much safer). In Poland, the popularity of direct debit is very low, even though when it was first introduced (somehow about 2000-2005, I think), it was widely advertised by telecommunication companies, as a comfortable way of paying telephone bills. My family has bad experience with direct debit, as we once signed a contract for an Internet connection and cancelled it after a few months (the operator allowed it in this offer) and the money was still being charged from the account afterwards for many months before we realized that. After we managed to cancel it, we didn't have to pay the telephone bills for many months because of this overpayment, we were getting invoices with the amount of 0 PLN

Quote:
Here in Norway they use a singular system, domestic debit cards are actually credit cards with instant withdrawing from account and no credit limit, from a technical transaction-management standpoint.
In Poland it's, I think, the same. In the past it was different, the banks were usually issuing "flat" cards, like Maestro, which didn't allow e.g. Internet payments (yet earlier, there were cards that allowed withdrawing money from ATM's only), now they usually give the new customers MaterCard or Visa debit cards, which seem to work exactly the same as credit cards. When you ask someone in Germany about one of those cards, he would tell it's a credit card, because in their minds it's impossible that a MasterCard or Visa card can be a debit card. And their card payment systems will accept it as credit cards. If you are paying over the Internet in Germany (e.g. on the Deutsche Bahn website) and it says that only credit cards are accepted - a modern Polish debit card will also work.

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I was working in a supermarket in the early 2000s while on high school. Banknotes over € 50 were very uncommon to get, € 200 and 500 was not accepted and almost nobody paid with € 100.
In Poland it's very rare to see a 200 PLN note (which is more or less 50 EUR). Probably because the ATM's usually don't have those notes, so people get them practically only if they withdraw money manually at the counter in the bank. So if you see someone paying with such a note, it's usually an elderly person.

They recently introduced 500 PLN notes, and they are even more rare.

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I try to pay as much as possible by card, so I can avoid having a stockpile of coins, including 1 cent and 2 cent coins which are not used in the Netherlands (though they are legal tender).
I can imagine that your supermarkets do not have prices of products ending with .99 but rather with .95 instead - but what if you buy products with prices per kg or per 100 g, or e.g. if you are paying at a gas station? Do they always round the price to the accuracy of 0.05 EUR, even though it's possible to pay exactly if you have those 1/2 cents coins? What if the price is, let's say, 1.98 EUR, you are able to pay exactly so much with coins, but they round the price up to 2 EUR? Are you forced to pay 2 EUR or can you pay exactly 1.98 EUR?

Concerning this stockpiling of coins, I don't have this problem. It sometimes happens that the wallet gets a bit more heavy when I have many coins - but I normally deal with that in such a way that I always try to pay the exact amount with the coins I have instead of relying on getting change. And e.g. if I need a coin of 10 groszes (1 grosz = 0.01 PLN) but I see that I can get the same amount with the smaller coins already gathered in my wallet (e.g. 5 groszes + 2 groszes + 3x1 grosz), I will use those smaller ones.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 12:55 AM   #37140
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Guys have you ever seen a 200€ banknote? Except a picture of it. I always get 100 or 500 € dispersed from atm.
I'm not sure, but I have never had a £50 note in my hands.
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