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Old October 1st, 2017, 05:59 PM   #37161
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Quote:
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Last summer, no one of the Albert Heijn foodstores we visited accepted the credit/debit MasterCard combo card issued by Danske Bank. In other shops and parking machines no problem.



AH does not accept any credit card, we got know. And their point of sales machines are apparently outdated and not able to recognize multiple cards in one chip. The first one is the credit card causing the rejection.


I’ve had trouble with Dutch parking meters. They won’t accept certain cards.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 07:05 PM   #37162
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But also nobody has to give you change if he doesn't have it.
One thing is declining a note if you don't have change, another thing is declining a note always.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 07:12 PM   #37163
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Regarding change: few years ago in Romania there was an issue as many stores (especially smaller ones) were always "out of change", so they were giving you some candy or other small-value items instead of change (worth 50 cents or so). Although they were stating that they are giving you that because they have no change, actually they had change but did that to actually sell a lot of those small-value products (every second customer or so would get some candy instead of 50c). That's until a new law was passed forbidding this practice, so now it's not an issue anymore.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 07:20 PM   #37164
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This is something I'll never understand. They're legal tender, nobody should refuse to accept them.
Too risky for small businesses. The big notes are common instruments to clean counterfeit money. According to the legislation here, the shops have a legal right to refuse any legal tender is that is informed clearly enough. Because almost everyone pays card, this is not an issue.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 07:24 PM   #37165
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Credit card usage for everyday purchases is extremely low in the Netherlands. Virtually all payments are done by debit cards. Because of the high transaction fees, not many shops accept credit cards.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 07:29 PM   #37166
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Too risky for small businesses. The big notes are common instruments to clean counterfeit money. According to the legislation here, the shops have a legal right to refuse any legal tender is that is informed clearly enough. Because almost everyone pays card, this is not an issue.
Article 693 or the Italian penal code states "Whoever refuses, for their face value, coins having legal tender in the State, is punished with 30 euro fine".

So the punishment is symbolic, but nonetheless refusing coins (wording in Italian is more vague but it may mean "coins or notes") is illegal here.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 07:37 PM   #37167
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This is something I'll never understand. They're legal tender, nobody should refuse to accept them.
This depends on the status of electronic money held in cash accounts, I believe. In the Netherlands, it is perfectly legal to refuse to accept cash altogether. Actually, the city government of Amsterdam is running a pilot program in which some shops voluntarily stop accepting cash in the most crowded areas. The goal is to reduce the security apparatus needed to organize the physical collection of money (money transporters etc) and the disruption it causes.

Buses pretty much stopped accepting cash altogether for safety reasons.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 08:02 PM   #37168
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Some Polish cities installed ticket machines on the public transport which accept card payments only.

I was recently taking a bus from the train station to the airport in Wrocław. There was a foreigner who was really trying to buy a ticket, but the machine was refusing his card... I don't remember how it finished, but probably he finally just rode without a ticket.

For me it was not a problem because I bought the ticket at the station, in a shop. For cash.

But I don't know any place where cards only would be accepted. I know it's common for international car rental companies to accept cards only, and specifically credit cards, not debit ones. If in some countries it's actually illegal not to accept cash, how do they work there? It would be logical to rent the car for cash and take a deposit, but from what I know, they don't do it.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 08:07 PM   #37169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Regarding change: few years ago in Romania there was an issue as many stores (especially smaller ones) were always "out of change", so they were giving you some candy or other small-value items instead of change (worth 50 cents or so). Although they were stating that they are giving you that because they have no change, actually they had change but did that to actually sell a lot of those small-value products (every second customer or so would get some candy instead of 50c). That's until a new law was passed forbidding this practice, so now it's not an issue anymore.


When I was first in Europe (1985, mostly France), visiting Americans were advised (probably in guidebooks...I forget) that French shopkeepers didn’t keep lots of change on hand - there may even have been an actual shortage of coins - and you shouldn’t just make 1-franc purchases with 20-franc notes as casually as you would here.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 08:14 PM   #37170
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Quote:
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But I don't know any place where cards only would be accepted. I know it's common for international car rental companies to accept cards only, and specifically credit cards, not debit ones. If in some countries it's actually illegal not to accept cash, how do they work there? It would be logical to rent the car for cash and take a deposit, but from what I know, they don't do it.
Car rental companies are a peculiar and particular business. They let a stranger drive off with a € 20 to 100 thousand valued semi-durable asset (the car), which has a high resale value if stolen and is costly to recover. Such asset can also be easily damaged, and then the owner (car rental company) must go after the temporary user (renter).

So they often require credit cards because, historically, it was much easier to place "holders" in a CC account or charge it after the fact. Nowadays, with electronic banking records and all that, there should be other ways to also organize this, but 20 years ago a credit car with reasonable credit limit was a sure way to ascertain the basic legitimacy of a would-be renter.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 08:33 PM   #37171
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When I was first in Europe (1985, mostly France), visiting Americans were advised (probably in guidebooks...I forget) that French shopkeepers didn’t keep lots of change on hand - there may even have been an actual shortage of coins - and you shouldn’t just make 1-franc purchases with 20-franc notes as casually as you would here.
Such things are never recommended - at least in Europe - and if you want to pay with a big note for something cheap, the cashier will often ask if you don't have anything smaller.

By the way, doing it when you have smaller values in your wallet will quickly make it heavy and thick.

It happened to me on a local bus (but it wasn't a city bus, so the tickets were sold by the driver on the board) that the driver had no change and I had only a big note, so I got my change only after we arrived at the station and he exchanged the money at the ticket office.

Once I needed to pay for a car wash, the washing guy there also had no change. So I went to a nearby shop - they also had no change. To another nearby shop - also no change. I think I managed to exchange the money only in the third or the fourth one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
So they often require credit cards because, historically, it was much easier to place "holders" in a CC account or charge it after the fact. Nowadays, with electronic banking records and all that, there should be other ways to also organize this, but 20 years ago a credit car with reasonable credit limit was a sure way to ascertain the basic legitimacy of a would-be renter.
Well, it would anyway work if they just took deposit. I was once renting a car in a small family company in Greece (on Crete) and it was so there.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 09:31 PM   #37172
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Are "reward" credit cards common in EU?

For example my credit card will pay me a credit of 1,5 % monthly of what I'm paying... so for me it is cheaper and easier than using cash. But I kind of miss handling the bills...
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Old October 1st, 2017, 09:43 PM   #37173
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Are "reward" credit cards common in EU?

For example my credit card will pay me a credit of 1,5 % monthly of what I'm paying... so for me it is cheaper and easier than using cash. But I kind of miss handling the bills...
Depends on the country. Several countries regulate the maximum fees that credit card vendors might take from the merchants. These fees are generally lower in Europe than in North America. In other countries, the network that process payments is set up a sort of clearing house with predetermined low-ish fees, and Visa/Mastercard are just users.

So rewards tend to be lower. Cashback cards are unheard in certain countries, but they do exist in others.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 12:50 AM   #37174
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Minimum temperatures today in Istria region. Down to -3°C in the Carso/Kras region, at an elevation of around 900m.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:15 PM   #37175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Article 693 or the Italian penal code states "Whoever refuses, for their face value, coins having legal tender in the State, is punished with 30 euro fine".

So the punishment is symbolic, but nonetheless refusing coins (wording in Italian is more vague but it may mean "coins or notes") is illegal here.
Shit happens. Does this statement criminalize card-only vending machines?

Spreading false money is a cubic zillion times easier in the eurozone than during the era of national currencies. The right to refuse the big notes is a cheap way to fight the flow of false money from the European corruption zone.

Forging the coins is easier, too, because one needs to forge the front side only. The back side can be virtually anything: An image of a bloodhound sitting on the shoulders of Pope would not lead anyone to raise the eyebrows.

Last edited by MattiG; October 2nd, 2017 at 07:24 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:22 PM   #37176
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Well, it would anyway work if they just took deposit. I was once renting a car in a small family company in Greece (on Crete) and it was so there.
Most car rental companies want to keep themselves far away from deposits, and especially the logistics implied. All they need is a way to charge extra afterwards, and a credit card (not a debit card) is a brilliant instrument for that purpose.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:43 PM   #37177
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Ridiculous taxation in the Netherlands.

If you want a small city car with automatic transmission you have to spend thousands of euros more in taxes.

For example, the 2017 Hyundai i10. The comfort trim is priced at € 13,609 with manual transmission but € 19,609 with automatic transmission. So you pay € 6,000 in additional taxes just for the automatic transmission. This is due to the registration fee being based on CO2 emissions. This makes automatic transmission disproportionally expensive for small cars.

In Belgium, the automatic transmission is only € 800 more expensive than manual transmission.

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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:49 PM   #37178
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I don't understand. Automatic transmissions emit more CO2?
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:53 PM   #37179
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Shit happens. Does this statement criminalize card-only vending machines?
Quite silly remark, thanks.

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Spreading false money is a cubic zillion times easier in the eurozone than during the era of national currencies. The right to refuse the big notes is a cheap way to fight the flow of false money from the European corruption zone.
There are easier ways to know if a note is false, every retail shop in Italy has those little machines that can tell you if a note is false or not.
Criminalizing customers just for the fact that they have big notes is not a very nice way to carry on businesses.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 08:17 PM   #37180
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I don't understand. Automatic transmissions emit more CO2?
Yes - at least on paper.

Hyundai i10 1.0 L with MT = 93 grams of CO2/km
Hyundai i10 1.0 L with AT = 134 grams of CO2/km
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