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Old December 15th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #37641
bogdymol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
In Germany, you need four trash bins to recycle a teabag: The bag into bio, the rope into others, the tag into paper, and the staple into metal.
Nobody is actually doing that...
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Old December 15th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #37642
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Nothing is collected separately at my apartment complex, everything is going in the same underground trash container. And I like it, I don't want 4 bins in my kitchen when I can have 1 that needs to be taken out once a week.

If I had 3 or 4 bins it would mean it takes longer to fill a trash bag and as a result, things would rot and stink. Leftover vegetables and potatoes already begin to stink within a day or two.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #37643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nothing is collected separately at my apartment complex, everything is going in the same underground trash container. And I like it, I don't want 4 bins in my kitchen when I can have 1 that needs to be taken out once a week.

If I had 3 or 4 bins it would mean it takes longer to fill a trash bag and as a result, things would rot and stink. Leftover vegetables and potatoes already begin to stink within a day or two.
I think this is the first time I strongly disagree with Chris...
I mean, it's true that organic waste must be taken away more often or it will stink, but I think recycling glass, plastic and (above all) metal is fundamental.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #37644
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I expected that in a developed country like NL separate collection was a must.
Nothing forbids to throw away a half-full bag if it stinks.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 05:28 PM   #37645
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The Netherlands does collect trash separately, but it depends on the municipality and even neighborhood. If you live in a single-family house, you likely have a separate trash container for paper, plastic, vegetables/garden and 'other'. But this is not practical in an apartment. So all trash is collected in one underground container and then mechanically separated after collection.

There is a long-lasting debate whether collecting trash separately, or separating it after collection is more efficient.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #37646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If I had 3 or 4 bins it would mean it takes longer to fill a trash bag and as a result, things would rot and stink. Leftover vegetables and potatoes already begin to stink within a day or two.
For me the second time, I disagree :-)
I have four ones. Three of them contains trash wich does not rot and stink. The fourth one, bio, is a small one, and I take it out in every 2-3 days. And I think it's OK.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 06:27 PM   #37647
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Well, I don't think it's okay. I think it's stupid to have 4 trash bins in my kitchen that fill up slowly. Especially since this is only due to ideological reasons: force 'awareness' onto citizens even if there is no environmental gain compared to separating trash after collection.

I do not have glass waste though. Bottles have a deposit in the supermarket. I don't have much metal either, just some cans every now and then.

In my office building there are bins with 4 types of waste. People separate most of their rubbish. At the end of the day, the bin is emptied into a single bag!
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Old December 15th, 2017, 06:55 PM   #37648
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We have green bags for bio waste and blue bags for plastic waste and regular bags for regular trash. The green and blue bags can be picked up free of charge in grocery stores. It works fine, it's common to have a system of square boxes so it doesn't take much space and a lid on the green one, but if it's true that there's no gain in sorting before collection, then of course that's disappointing.

Glass and metal are also recycled but in "return points" usually in or close to grocery stores. None of this is mandatory afaik and there are no incentives. But you're expected to at least do the green bag and blue bag.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #37649
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Is it possible to mechanically separate different materials after their collection with a good degree of effectivness? Doesn't organic waste make everything else too dirty to be recycled?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 07:24 PM   #37650
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Of course it is possible - that's why some people have veeery smelly job
Actually all garbage is mechanically separated again after collection - everywhere.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 08:19 PM   #37651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
For me the second time, I disagree :-)
I have four ones. Three of them contains trash wich does not rot and stink. The fourth one, bio, is a small one, and I take it out in every 2-3 days. And I think it's OK.
I disagree with your disagreement. The plastic packaging of all meat products that I buy smell very bad if they stay for more than 2 days in the plastic waste trash can. Therefore, every time I have such waste, I have to take the plastic trash can to the dumpster that day or latest the next day.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:23 PM   #37652
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Recycling is not just to save a few euros on waste tax, but it's important for the environment.
It has no meaning for the environment if you sort your trash at home or not.

Maybe it's different in Italy, but in Poland all the trash has to be sorted. The waste from the "generic"/"non-recyclables" bin (it's the same, the same car collects the non-recyclables from those who sort and all the waste from those who don't sort) goes to a sorting plant and it's sorted manually there, by people. The recyclables must go there too, because always some people will throw wrong pieces of trash to them, either because they are wrong about where they should throw the specific one, or because they just don't care. And you can't send a plastic bottle to the glass recycling plant or vice versa, even if someone by mistake put it there. But, of course, sorting the recyclables is cheaper, as they contain mostly the "correct" waste and what only has to be done, is filtering out the small amount of the "wrong" waste.







By the way, for example, you shouldn't throw broken glass to the glass (or recyclables) container, it should go to the non-recyclables. Which doesn't seem to be really ecological, but it is so. Why? I don't know. Theoretically, someone at the sorting plant could get hurt, but the non-recyclables also go through the sorting plant...

Also, for example, the waste after oily things, especially the butter packages, are supposed to go to the non-recyclables. At least in my area.

And, when I was in Germany, we had to sort the trash only to the recyclables (Wertstoffe), non-recyclables (Reststoffe) and the bio-waste (Biomüll).
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #37653
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Sorting between different materials (plastic, metal, glass, paper...) is OK, but sorting between mixed waste is probably not, as organic waste would contaminate the other materials (for example we are instructed not to recycle dirty paper).
Here broken glass can be recycled (and unbroken glass would break too when you throw it in the container). Metal goes in the same container of glass, they probably sort it with a magnet.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #37654
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Separating organic waste is a good idea, because it makes washing recyclables more expensive otherwise. Reasons Dutch cities often don't separate trash yet on apartment complexes is that they don't have space in the buildings for the logistics of separation. And there is a lot of incineration of trash going on as well instead of landfills (for obvious reasons). Actually, several incinerators in NL import trash from other countries to burn and generate energy (it is dirty and polluting though, albeit substantially less than let it in a landfill)
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Old December 15th, 2017, 10:57 PM   #37655
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In Poland, we also have sorting organic waste, although if someone has a garden, he usually uses the organic waste (and has used it until now, without any "official" recycling too) as fertilizer.

Generally, in the "recyclables" container, there should be only dry (or almost dry) things. For example, you don't have to wash a jam jar before throwing it into it, but it should be emptied as well as possible, you shouldn't throw it there only half-empty (with the other half rotten because you haven't used it up before the expiry date) or anything like that.

But these are things like jam etc., which are easily washable. Oily things, like butter paper packaging, but also, for example, used-up graveyard candles, should go to the non-recyclables.

Concerning the Tetra-Pak packages and other multi-material ones, they go to the plastic&metal container.

There are also things which you can't throw even into the non-recyclables, like medicines and medicine packages (I think it concerns only those which have direct contact with the drug, not the cardboard boxes), light bulbs (even the traditional ones), thermometers, electronic equipment, printer cartridges, all the bulky stuff, construction waste. So styrofoam also cannot go there.
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Old December 16th, 2017, 01:31 AM   #37656
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The waste management procedures vary a lot by country and by local conditions. For example, centralized collection of biowaste is not very useful in the far north because the composting process will stop for half of year if done outside. If done inside, the cost to build and heat easily exceeds the value of the process. There is a business case for biogas reactors in bigger cities only.

In Finland most one-family houses have their own composting equipment, and many of those are isolated for the winter use. The result is used locally as fertilizer. Bigger houses (20+ homes) in the bigger cities must organize the biowaste collection. Elsewhere, the biowaste is usually treated as mixed waste.

There is a country-wide system to recycle paper and cardboard. In many areas, there is an organized collection of plastic packages, metal and glass, too.

It is good to understand that because of the low population density especially in the north, finding space for dumpyards is substantially easier than in the crowded Central Europe.

Almost all beverage bottles and cans are sold through the country-wide deposit-return system, and bottles and cans can be returned virtually in any shop. The return rates in 2016 were 96% for cans, 92% for plastic bottles and 88% for the glass bottles. Thus, the burden of beverage packages to the waste management system is quite minimal.

The Helsinki metro area is nowadays served by the brand new waste-to-energy plant which is said to one of the most efficient ones in the world: the efficiency is about 95%. The burning temperature is about 900 degrees centigrade, and the plant thus burns about anything else but heavy metal, including the biowaste in the mixed waste. About 90% of the particles coming from the chimneys are filtered. The temperature is kept by using natural gas. The plant outputs electricity energy for about the same amount it consumes the gas energy. In addition, it produces a substantial amount of district heating: 50% of the need of the City of Vantaa of 220.000 inhabitants.
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Old December 16th, 2017, 05:54 PM   #37657
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In Poland it's not so easy with bottle return. There are bottles with deposit - only glass ones, especially those with beer - but to get the deposit back, you must have the receipt and return the bottle in the same shop where you bought its content.

In Germany it's better, because also many plastic bottles have deposit (usually those with water and with soft drinks like Coca-Cola, unfortunately e.g. those with orange juice not) and it's possible to return them in practically any supermarket. Usually it's organized in such a way that you put the bottles into a machine, which prints a receipt for you, with which the price you pay for your shopping is reduced by the deposit on the bottles you have returned. In some shops, if there is no machine, you return the bottles at the cash desk, where they just throw it into a common bag, full of bottles.

Another thing in Germany is that the bottles with deposit can be disposable or multiple-use ones. And in many shops, there are separate machines for each type.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 01:14 PM   #37658
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I've seen for the 1st time a car with Moroccan plate.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 01:14 PM   #37659
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Just a business jet crossing a road: https://www.facebook.com/Aeronews.ro...9265975149497/
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Old December 17th, 2017, 01:52 PM   #37660
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Quote:
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Another thing in Germany is that the bottles with deposit can be disposable or multiple-use ones. And in many shops, there are separate machines for each type.
The Finnish system is quite advanced. In most shops there are machines eating all sorts of cans and bottles. The bigger shops have backroom processing units to compact cans and plastic bottles already at the shop.

For some unknown reason, Lidl has its own closed system for plastic bottles. That makes things slightly troublesome. My solution is to not buy bottled beverages at Lidl.
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