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Old December 24th, 2017, 11:09 AM   #37761
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
As the devices know the variation by time and weekday, the estimates are amazingly accurate.
That's right, but with a few exceptions: summer holiday congestion in Central Europe.

Long queues at the Gotthard Tunnel or several other Alpine tunnels, occur only a few times per year, on slightly different dates. Historical data doesn't take this into account sufficiently. In addition, delays at Google Maps especially get 'saturated'. It rarely shows delays over 80 minutes even though waiting times can get over 2 - 3 hours. TomTom appears to be better at this.

Also, the construction-related congestion, in particular in Germany. These seasonal construction zones cause significant traffic congestion but most of it occurs only during 4-6 months a year, and every year on a different location. So using historical data isn't taking that into account properly.

That's why you see Google Maps sending users into massive traffic jams, only to detour them via secondary roads at the very last exit. So the user thinks: 'wow, Google Maps is great, I'm avoiding that traffic jam', while in reality if that user would've taken an alternate motorway earlier, the overall travel time may have been shorter. The reason: based on historical data, Google thinks that traffic jam will disappear before you get there. This is true for regular rush hour congestion, but not with construction-related congestion.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 12:35 PM   #37762
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I drove with a colleague to Frankfurt Trade Fair this year. He drives a Mercedes C class from 2016. The route option was "dynamically". We arrived Frankfurt at about 9AM. Rush hour. We were routed from A3 to the north parallel to A661. Back on A661 just to leave it at the next exit again and go left to B43. My colleague got a phone call (handsfree system of course). At a red lights the route was re-calculated and we should enter A661 again. I disagreed and said he should just follow B43 as suggested before because cars stood on A661. We entered B43 and suddenly we should turn left. I was confused because of the stupid map view style and too slow to stop my colleague turning left. We should just drive straight to the south! We couldn't follow as suggested because of a (permanent) construction site. I instructed my colleague driving back to B43 and turning left. Back there, the navigation system had the old route again. We drove on (empty) city streets but with a lot of (red) traffic lights. We lost more than 30 minutes compared to the estimated arriving time displayed when leaving A3.

https://www.google.de/maps/dir/50.06...1b239d!1m0!3e0

I'm not sure which navigation software is used, I think it's Garmin!? My colleague changed the settings from "dynamically" to "fastest route" when we arrvied because things like that often happened to him.

My mobile navigation system (Becker with Here Maps) loves to use parallel carriageways through large interchanges instead of using the main carriageway. It also happens at normal interchanges where the off-ramp turns into the on-ramp again after the junction with the secondary road. Not because anything is congested but even if you drive 120km/h on an empty motorway...
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Old December 24th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #37763
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Quote:
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Trying to ask for reparations like Greece or Poland did is a cheap unnecessary political stunt aimed at internal audiences and resentment that Germany is substantially more prosperous nowadays, but it is past time to ask Germany to keep paying compensation for WW2.
I cannot agree with you but let's not ruin this thread with political discussions. What I can say is that all European countries should receive billions of cash from Germany about the damage that was done in WW2.
Communists are often blamed because many generations still remember the communist ruling hand and the memories are fresh, unlike the fascist one where most who lived through WW2 are already dead. Nazi Germany's impact is still remembered throughout the former communist bloc and that is what I personally respect.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #37764
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Old December 24th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #37765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I don't know what's your definition of "the western world" but it's totally different in (former Western) Germany.
Germany lays in Central Europe At least Germans claim so, from what I know (and I asked some Germans about that).

Poland, according to us, Poles - too. Although Germans, not to mention those more to the west, may claim we are the East. After all, we are located east of them, so it's not so that it makes no sense.

Best wishes for Christmas!
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Old December 24th, 2017, 11:14 PM   #37766
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By the way. Does any other country have a similar tradition of Christmas carols (that means songs talking about the Biblical events, about what was going on in Bethlehem when Jesus was born - like Silent Night, NOT the Christmas commercial songs like Last Christmas or Jingle Bells) as we in Poland?

Because in Poland, they are present not only in churches - but it's a tradition for many families to sing, or, at least, listen to (if someone is less talented for music) the carols during the Christmas eve dinner, also most radio stations are just now playing the Christmas carols, and there are concerts of Christmas carols transmitted on TV, also with participation of our pop stars. They are an extremely important part of Christmas for us. And those carols we know, sing and listen to are usually very old, traditional songs. New ones also exist, but the traditional ones are most liked and most popular. Silent Night (in the Polish translation) also belongs to them, but there are many original Polish ones.

Here is a sample:


(don't ask why with a cat, maybe someone assumed there is no good YouTube video without a sweet cat - it suits here anyway )



I don't think any country, at least in western Europe, has anything like that... But maybe some of those south or east of Poland?
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Old December 24th, 2017, 11:22 PM   #37767
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We have carols they are very very old date from Byzantine.

This is similar, but take in mind that we don't sing them in home or on the radio. They are just carols and this is the most famous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQPUOdDyMZI
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Old December 24th, 2017, 11:41 PM   #37768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
By the way. Does any other country have a similar tradition of Christmas carols (that means songs talking about the Biblical events, about what was going on in Bethlehem when Jesus was born - like Silent Night, NOT the Christmas commercial songs like Last Christmas or Jingle Bells) as we in Poland?

Because in Poland, they are present not only in churches - but it's a tradition for many families to sing, or, at least, listen to (if someone is less talented for music) the carols during the Christmas eve dinner, also most radio stations are just now playing the Christmas carols, and there are concerts of Christmas carols transmitted on TV, also with participation of our pop stars. They are an extremely important part of Christmas for us. And those carols we know, sing and listen to are usually very old, traditional songs. New ones also exist, but the traditional ones are most liked and most popular. Silent Night (in the Polish translation) also belongs to them, but there are many original Polish ones.



I don't think any country, at least in western Europe, has anything like that... But maybe some of those south or east of Poland?
We do in Croatia of course, a plenty of them.
In Czechia and Hungary they have them, too.
Why do you thing that western Europe doesn't have it?
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:07 AM   #37769
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Well, you have even the Junkie's post above where he says they have carols (as probably all or almost all the countries celebrating Christmas), but they have no tradition of singing them at home or on the radio.

And I think the same might be the case in most western European countries. I checked some German radio stations (and Germans also celebrate the Christmas Eve) and what I only heard were the English-language songs about Christmas.

Maybe I am wrong, but then I will be happy to learn that
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:13 AM   #37770
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Most Christmas songs played on FM radio in the Netherlands are just the standard 15-20 'classic' songs you hear every year. (Wham, Mariah Carey, Chris Rea, Band Aid, John Lennon, etc.) I can't stand them. Streaming music (Spotify, etc.) has more recent Christmas songs that are popular. I don't listen to Christmas music generally, I find it tacky.

Of course you can expect to see Home Alone 1 & 2 and Die Hard movies on TV around these days. I grew up with Home Alone, it shaped my view of the United States when I was a kid. I remember I was quite intrigued with New York City in Home Alone 2.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:17 AM   #37771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Most Christmas songs played on FM radio in the Netherlands are just the standard 15-20 'classic' songs you hear every year. (Wham, Mariah Carey, Chris Rea, Band Aid, John Lennon, etc.) I can't stand them. Streaming music (Spotify, etc.) has more recent Christmas songs that are popular. I don't listen to Christmas music generally, I find it tacky.

Of course you can expect to see Home Alone 1 & 2 and Die Hard movies on TV around these days. I grew up with Home Alone, it shaped my view of the United States when I was a kid. I remember I was quite intrigued with New York City in Home Alone 2.
And mister Bean + Jeff Dunham Christmass special. Also don't forget the sound of music
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:34 AM   #37772
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By the way... talking about Home Alone and Die Hard, there is this funny thing with the translations of movie titles, which are not always literal. In Polish they are not literal for neither of those films.

Home Alone was translated as Kevin Alone at Home. The action of Home Alone 2 takes place on the streets of New York. So it was easy to invent a Polish name for this second part, which would be even more suitable than the original - in Poland, we call this movie Kevin Alone in New York.

But with Die Hard the situation was opposite. Die Hard was "translated" as... Glass Trap. Indeed, the action took place in a skyscraper made of steel and glass, so the title made sense. However, Die Hard 2 and the following parts did not take place in a skyscraper any more. But what could the Polish translators do? They just named the sequels Glass Trap 2, Glass Trap 3 and so on.

Meanwhile, the German title of Die Hard is... Die Slowly. Well, at least the name is not unsuitable for the sequels.

Another interesting case is Terminator. Now, the commonly used name in Poland for this film, shown e.g. on TV listings, is just Terminator. But the original translation from 1980s was... Electronic Murderer. Which sounds quite awkward and maybe funny. But the problem was, the word terminator already had a meaning in Polish that had nothing to do with terminating anything (and especially lives) which meant a kind of apprentice. Maybe it wasn't a very widely known word - but it existed, and still exists. At least, this decision was explained in such a way. So they translated the title into Electronic Murderer...

I have also noticed that many countries do not translate Star Wars (BTW, have you already seen The Last Jedi? but please, no spoilers, or at least mark them if you can't avoid them, I reserved seats at the cinema for Wednesday). In Poland, the series is commonly known as Gwiezdne Wojny - which is, luckily, a literal translation.

Although... I looked at the German and French subtitles and this was already a spoiler for me Because the English and the Polish names don't indicate whether there is only one last Jedi in the movie or many of them. In English, "the" is used for both singular and plural, in Polish we have a case system, but it so happens, that the Polish word for "last" has the same form for the singular masculine nominative and the plural masculine-personal nominative. And, same as in English, the plural of Jedi is also Jedi. But in German, both the article and the case clearly indicate if there is one last Jedi or many, same in French (no case system, but the singular and plural articles are different).

As I see on Wikipedia (at the article for the newest movie), the languages: Catalan, Czech, Danish, German, Spanish, Basque, French, Gaelic, Indonesian, Italian, Dutch, Norwegian, Portuguese, Scots, Slovenian, Serbian, Finnish, Swedish, Chinese - do not translate the Star Wars title. Some of them translate the subtitle (here: The Last Jedi), some not.

Last edited by Kpc21; December 25th, 2017 at 12:44 AM.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:41 AM   #37773
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The Netherlands generally doesn't translate movie titles. Movies and TV series are subtitled, not dubbed, except when it is aimed at young children. Even then, the titles aren't always translated, for example the The Lion King was dubbed in Dutch but the title remained English. Though other Disney films geared towards children were usually translated with a Dutch title.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:18 AM   #37774
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Well, I believe that the thing that the movies are subtitled doesn't automatically mean the titles can't be translated

In Poland, the movies in cinemas are either subtitled or dubbed (usually there are two versions available), on DVD you also have choice - there is the original and the dubbed soundtrack available and you can turn on the subtitles as well. Meanwhile, on TV, they usually make an overvoice (read all the time by the same man, and, by the way, all the time the same one on the given TV station), but I think we have already discussed this topic.

By the way, in the countries where you don't do dubbing or overvoice but subtitles on TV... Do you also have subtitles in TV news, e.g. when they show what someone from another country said?


Here in Poland they sometimes leave the original title of the movie, or they add a subtitle with something close to a translation but still leaving the original title before it - but it's rather rare and it happens when the title is difficult to translate and they don't want to invent a different Polish one.

But in case of movies for children, they usually try to invent something else if the title is difficult to translate. E.g. Frozen was translated as Kraina lodu - The Land of Ice. The Incredibles were translated as Iniemamocni - which is a pun in Polish, referring also to a title of a Polish comedy from 1970s (which is, again, an idiom). The comedy has nothing to do with superheros, it's a sequel of a comedy from 1960s about a quarrel between two neighbors in the countryside. But the literal meaning of its title is something like "there is no strong ones" and as in idiom, it means there is nobody who could solve the problem.

But also from the children movies, e.g. High School Musical was left untranslated. Or Shrek... it is a name, so there was no reason to translate it. The sequel was Shrek 2 and it was left so in Polish. Then there was Shrek The Third, which resembles a name of a king with his number, and so was it translated to Polish (Shrek Trzeci). However, the name of the next part was not translated. But... it was changed from Shrek Forever After to Shrek Forever. Probably because the expression "forever after" is not so well known among non-native English speakers (especially in Poland where the knowledge of English in the society is on rather low level). Actually, for me neither - but it seems it means the same as just "forever".

If we talk about Shrek... in such movies and books too, where the authors place the characters in a different world, there are usually some names specific only to them. And translating them is often a challenge... In Shrek, there was a town of Far Far Away. To Polish it was translated as Zasiedmiogórogród - literally something like: Behind-Seven-Hills-Town. Why? Because the traditional way of beginning a fairytale in Polish is something like: "Long, long time ago, behind seven hills, behind seven rivers, behind seven forests..." (there are different variations). And the literal translation of Far Far Away - "Bardzo Bardzo Daleko" would not carry this fairytale connotation.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:25 AM   #37775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Netherlands generally doesn't translate movie titles. Movies and TV series are subtitled, not dubbed, except when it is aimed at young children. Even then, the titles aren't always translated, for example the The Lion King was dubbed in Dutch but the title remained English. Though other Disney films geared towards children were usually translated with a Dutch title.
In Flanders, the Flemish dubbed children and Disney or pixar animated movies, the titles are translated. 'Leeuwenkoning' is on the front. There is ofthen a big difference in lines as well througout the movies. I don't know why they do this. Offcourse none of the other movies are dubbed.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:40 AM   #37776
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In lines, that means in the literal words of movies?

Translating a thing like a movie, book, computer game is different from translating technical stuff, not to mention translating official documents (which is a totally opposite thing). Keeping original words is not so important as keeping not only the sense of the original content but also the level of how something is funny, or not funny, in general, such kind of things. Sometimes you encounter puns or cultural references which you can't translate literally, because they will either lose their sense, or become not understandable for the viewers, not knowing e.g. the American cultural context.

Of all the children movies, this thing is especially present in the Shrek series. I must once watch Shrek in original for comparison, but I don't think that the original can even compare with the Polish dubbing for a Polish person, the Polish dubbing simply seems to be very good. Maybe because it has many Polish cultural references.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:48 AM   #37777
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In Portugal foreign films and television programmes etc. are almost always subtitled unless for small children but the film titles are still changed. As with the Polish examples, the film titles often change completely.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 04:07 AM   #37778
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The thing which is almost always dubbed in Poland are the documentaries, especially those about nature.

Because dubbing of a documentary is much simpler than of a fabular movie - you usually need only one actor.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 10:10 AM   #37779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Home Alone was translated as Kevin Alone at Home. The action of Home Alone 2 takes place on the streets of New York. So it was easy to invent a Polish name for this second part, which would be even more suitable than the original - in Poland, we call this movie Kevin Alone in New York.
Germans just copied the Polish names:

Kevin – Allein zu Haus
Kevin – Allein in New York
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Old December 25th, 2017, 10:47 AM   #37780
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Nothing compares to Slovenian translation of voldemort from Harry potter movie.
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